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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5459985" data-attributes="member: 42582">Janx, the &quot;placate&quot; scenario may in many cases ultimately be the same as your &quot;seal away a demon&quot; scenario, or perhaps your &quot;hold them off&quot; scenario. Part of what I had in mind was that the flavour difference, and so the surrounding circumstances and motivations, might be quite different.The closest actual play example I have, which is what made me come up with the suggestion, isn't itself quite a case of PC self-sacrifice:One of the PCs at the time was a seer, and there was general view among the players (including the player of the seer) that the divination magic was spoiling the game (Rolemaster was the system being used), and therefore that it might be good to retire that PC and bring in a different one. This metagame consideration had a dramatic effect on play when the party found itself in dire straits, fighting some enemy cultists whom the PCs almost certainly couldn't beat. Realising this, the PC &quot;leader&quot; of the party offered instead to join with the cultists, and as a show of good faith offered up the seer as a sacrifice.This caught me (as GM) somewhat by surprise, and took the rest of the game in quite a different direction. It also created a ready-to-hand point for future disagreements among the players - the opinions of the player of the &quot;leader&quot; PC could always be dismissed on the grounds that he was the player who was prepared to sacrifice another player's PC! (Given that the phasing out of the PC was a mutual decision, even if the decision to actually sacrifice her was a bit more on the unilateral side, this was generally good-natured jibing rather than a genuine criticism.)Trying now to work out a hypothetical that is a genuine case of PC self-sacrifice:The party has made enemies of a god/noble/other powerful NPC, and have been increasingly biting off more than they can chew. The PC paladin/cleric/whomever is particularly hated by this enemy, as is the principal target of the enemies increasingly vicious retaliation. In order to spare the party the retaliation (not to mention the damage to innocent bystanders that might also result from attempts at retaliation by the enemy NPC) the &quot;target PC&quot; offers him/herself to the enemy as a hostage/sacrifice/etc.That has some resemblance to the &quot;holding off&quot; or &quot;sealing&quot; scenarios, but I think is not the same. For a start it seems to have a central social or bargaining aspect that the others don't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5459985, member: 42582"] Janx, the "placate" scenario may in many cases ultimately be the same as your "seal away a demon" scenario, or perhaps your "hold them off" scenario. Part of what I had in mind was that the flavour difference, and so the surrounding circumstances and motivations, might be quite different. The closest actual play example I have, which is what made me come up with the suggestion, isn't itself quite a case of PC self-sacrifice: One of the PCs at the time was a seer, and there was general view among the players (including the player of the seer) that the divination magic was spoiling the game (Rolemaster was the system being used), and therefore that it might be good to retire that PC and bring in a different one. This metagame consideration had a dramatic effect on play when the party found itself in dire straits, fighting some enemy cultists whom the PCs almost certainly couldn't beat. Realising this, the PC "leader" of the party offered instead to join with the cultists, and as a show of good faith offered up the seer as a sacrifice. This caught me (as GM) somewhat by surprise, and took the rest of the game in quite a different direction. It also created a ready-to-hand point for future disagreements among the players - the opinions of the player of the "leader" PC could always be dismissed on the grounds that he was the player who was prepared to sacrifice another player's PC! (Given that the phasing out of the PC was a mutual decision, even if the decision to actually [I]sacrifice[/I] her was a bit more on the unilateral side, this was generally good-natured jibing rather than a genuine criticism.) Trying now to work out a hypothetical that is a genuine case of PC self-sacrifice: The party has made enemies of a god/noble/other powerful NPC, and have been increasingly biting off more than they can chew. The PC paladin/cleric/whomever is particularly hated by this enemy, as is the principal target of the enemies increasingly vicious retaliation. In order to spare the party the retaliation (not to mention the damage to innocent bystanders that might also result from attempts at retaliation by the enemy NPC) the "target PC" offers him/herself to the enemy as a hostage/sacrifice/etc. That has some resemblance to the "holding off" or "sealing" scenarios, but I think is not the same. For a start it seems to have a central social or bargaining aspect that the others don't. [/QUOTE]

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