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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8194685" data-attributes="member: 71699">For my part, I feel like we might have a reasonable and shared understanding. I believe you would stop short of inferring a secret rule from the examples. I moot that short of such a rule, we're left with ambiguity. Based on that, I go on to argue that we can only rely on the express rule: a group needs to narrate some difficulty although what exactly that would be is - perforce - up to them.The rules continue to do some useful lifting. They make it clear that a climb can be done without any check at all: you don't always need to make a check to climb. As I think [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] pointed out, some rule systems differ on that: in those systems you do always need to make a check to climb.</blockquote>