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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8195573" data-attributes="member: 71699">Given we agree there is ambiguity, those arguments are logically false. I'll try and illustrate it below.(C((ABC')A')B')XThat is not a perfect illustration. Because we said there is ambiguity, we cannot delimit the contents of the set. The fact that X is outside the set on all accounts doesn't prevent there being multiple equally valid lists of what is inside the set. Inside C's circle are CABC'. Inside A's circle are ABC'A. Inside B's are ABC'A'B. All exclude X.That example worked better in my head <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> but hopefully you can see that to say the circle is ambiguous, logically entails that there is not one authoritative list of contents. There are multiple, equally valid (unable to be chosen between) ways to draw the circle. And that doesn't change just because there are things that on all accounts are put outside. The language is deceptive. We casually spoke of a circle, but seeing that circle is ambiguous we must hold in mind that it comprises multiple overlapping circles, all equally valid - no definitive way to choose between them.I hope that you can see that - even though we haven't stumbled across them yet - there might be circumstances that you would call difficult that [USER=6987520]@6ENow![/USER] would not. The certainty of the arguments you put - and the reliance on there being a single definitive circle - are logically not supportable once you agree upon there being ambiguity.</blockquote>

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