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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8087498" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Isn't the whole point of a pit to trap someone or slow them down? If you allow PCs to just climb out all the time, where is the challenge? What then would be the purpose of the pit???I think for some people this is why exploration isn't as big as it could be. In a game I ran a few weeks ago the PCs had to cross a river. There were small &quot;islands&quot;, large enough to stop at, across the way, but because of the current, cold water, etc. it was a very real risk they could be swept away if they didn't swim well. So, I required swim checks, and the excitement built when PCs had to work to help those who were failing. It is a classic scene in a lot of stories when one person is swept downstream and others have to find ways to help them.Pits, cliffs, rivers, etc. are all natural obstacles to the adventure IMO and should be used to slow things down, using up time and resources.What the &quot;average adventurer&quot; could do isn't much beyond what the average commoner could do unless they have a much better STR and/or proficiency in Athletics. Many PCs have STR 8-12 unless they are built for it, favoring DEX and CON (understandably) over STR. Many PCs don't take Athletics proficiency unless it is because they plan to grapple a lot or want to actually be good at facing those natural obstacles.IME, the average modifier your typical PC would have would be in the neighborhood of +4, some much higher, many would be very low however. At that point a DM just has to decide (the purpose of this thread, really) what climbing rules they want to use and that will determine the typical chance of success. There is no right or wrong way at this point, it is all about what you want in your game, etc. I would find a game boring if, when presented with such natural obstacles, we didn't really have to do anything to get by them other than tell the DM &quot;we climb the wall&quot; or &quot;we swim across&quot;. But if such challenges don't appeal to your table, that's good for you then I guess.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8087498, member: 6987520"] Isn't the whole point of a pit to trap someone or slow them down? If you allow PCs to just climb out all the time, where is the challenge? What then would be the purpose of the pit??? I think for some people this is why exploration isn't as big as it could be. In a game I ran a few weeks ago the PCs had to cross a river. There were small "islands", large enough to stop at, across the way, but because of the current, cold water, etc. it was a very real risk they could be swept away if they didn't swim well. So, I required swim checks, and the excitement built when PCs had to work to help those who were failing. It is a classic scene in a lot of stories when one person is swept downstream and others have to find ways to help them. Pits, cliffs, rivers, etc. are all natural obstacles to the adventure IMO and should be used to slow things down, using up time and resources. What the "average adventurer" could do isn't much beyond what the average commoner could do [I]unless[/I] they have a much better STR and/or proficiency in Athletics. Many PCs have STR 8-12 unless they are built for it, favoring DEX and CON (understandably) over STR. Many PCs don't take Athletics proficiency unless it is because they plan to grapple a lot or want to actually be good at facing those natural obstacles. IME, the average modifier your typical PC would have would be in the neighborhood of +4, some much higher, many would be very low however. At that point a DM just has to decide (the purpose of this thread, really) what climbing rules they want to use and that will determine the typical chance of success. There is no right or wrong way at this point, it is all about what you want in your game, etc. I would find a game boring if, when presented with such natural obstacles, we didn't really have to do anything to get by them other than tell the DM "we climb the wall" or "we swim across". But if such challenges don't appeal to your table, that's good for you then I guess. [/QUOTE]

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