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Cloak of Elvenkind - Advantage to Stealth AND -5 to passive perception?
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<blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 8214043" data-attributes="member: 6788736"><p>Thats the intent in the rules though; no-one is arguing otherwise ('the DM determines when circumstances are OK for hiding').</p><p></p><p>My position is this.</p><p></p><p><strong>N </strong>(creature without Skulker or similar ability) is in darkness. <strong>C</strong> is also present (has darkvision 60'). <strong>N </strong>is 50' away from <strong>C</strong>, and within the range of<strong> C</strong>'s darkvision, and thus <strong>N </strong>is treated as if they were in dim light.</p><p></p><p>1) <strong>N </strong><u>cannot </u>hide from <strong>C </strong>unless the DM rules <strong>C </strong>is sufficiently distracted (i.e. looking the other way, and thus effectively blinded with respect to <strong>N</strong>). <strong>N </strong>can try to Hide (via the Hide action if actions matter, by standing there for a few seconds totally quiet while<strong> C</strong> stares at him), but all such attempts automatically fail (for obvious reasons).</p><p></p><p>2) <strong>N </strong><u>can </u>move outside of the range of <strong>C</strong>s darkvision, and into the darkness (total obscurement) 10' behind him, and attempt to Hide once heavily obscured (again using the Hide action if actions matter).</p><p></p><p>3) If <strong>N </strong>becomes hidden in the Darkness, and then re-enters <strong>C</strong>s Darkvision range of 60' and approaches <strong>C</strong>, <strong>N </strong>is <u>automatically </u>discovered by <strong>C</strong>, because <strong>C</strong> is assumed to be observing the area sufficiently enough to spot <strong>N </strong>as soon as <strong>N </strong>emerges from the darkness into an area he cannot hide in (dim light), unless the DM rules <strong>C</strong> is 'sufficiently distracted' and looking the other way.</p><p></p><p>4) If the DM rules <strong>C</strong> is looking the other way, but <strong>C</strong> is otherwise alert and listening for hidden enemies (i.e. searching) and looking around (but not behind him) he can make a Perception check to detect <strong>N</strong> as <strong>N </strong>moves up behind him (effectively, <strong>C </strong>is taking the Search action).</p><p></p><p>5) If the DM rules <strong>C</strong> is looking the other way, and<strong> C</strong> is also not alert (he's busy reading a map or taking other actions), he is not taking the Search action, and unless <strong>N</strong> does something to reveal himself, or the situation otherwise changes, <strong>N </strong>can sneak up behind<strong> C</strong> and stab <strong>C</strong> in the back.</p><p></p><p>Note that the general rule is that<strong> N is automatically discovered as soon as he enters the range of C's darkvision</strong>. The circumstances might dictate otherwise, and call for a DM ruling (C's player might have told the DM he is expressly looking the other way to the direction from which N is approaching him or similar), but the general rule of automatic detection holds in most cases.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Flamestrike, post: 8214043, member: 6788736"] Thats the intent in the rules though; no-one is arguing otherwise ('the DM determines when circumstances are OK for hiding'). My position is this. [B]N [/B](creature without Skulker or similar ability) is in darkness. [B]C[/B] is also present (has darkvision 60'). [B]N [/B]is 50' away from [B]C[/B], and within the range of[B] C[/B]'s darkvision, and thus [B]N [/B]is treated as if they were in dim light. 1) [B]N [/B][U]cannot [/U]hide from [B]C [/B]unless the DM rules [B]C [/B]is sufficiently distracted (i.e. looking the other way, and thus effectively blinded with respect to [B]N[/B]). [B]N [/B]can try to Hide (via the Hide action if actions matter, by standing there for a few seconds totally quiet while[B] C[/B] stares at him), but all such attempts automatically fail (for obvious reasons). 2) [B]N [/B][U]can [/U]move outside of the range of [B]C[/B]s darkvision, and into the darkness (total obscurement) 10' behind him, and attempt to Hide once heavily obscured (again using the Hide action if actions matter). 3) If [B]N [/B]becomes hidden in the Darkness, and then re-enters [B]C[/B]s Darkvision range of 60' and approaches [B]C[/B], [B]N [/B]is [U]automatically [/U]discovered by [B]C[/B], because [B]C[/B] is assumed to be observing the area sufficiently enough to spot [B]N [/B]as soon as [B]N [/B]emerges from the darkness into an area he cannot hide in (dim light), unless the DM rules [B]C[/B] is 'sufficiently distracted' and looking the other way. 4) If the DM rules [B]C[/B] is looking the other way, but [B]C[/B] is otherwise alert and listening for hidden enemies (i.e. searching) and looking around (but not behind him) he can make a Perception check to detect [B]N[/B] as [B]N [/B]moves up behind him (effectively, [B]C [/B]is taking the Search action). 5) If the DM rules [B]C[/B] is looking the other way, and[B] C[/B] is also not alert (he's busy reading a map or taking other actions), he is not taking the Search action, and unless [B]N[/B] does something to reveal himself, or the situation otherwise changes, [B]N [/B]can sneak up behind[B] C[/B] and stab [B]C[/B] in the back. Note that the general rule is that[B] N is automatically discovered as soon as he enters the range of C's darkvision[/B]. The circumstances might dictate otherwise, and call for a DM ruling (C's player might have told the DM he is expressly looking the other way to the direction from which N is approaching him or similar), but the general rule of automatic detection holds in most cases. [/QUOTE]
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Cloak of Elvenkind - Advantage to Stealth AND -5 to passive perception?
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