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Cloak of Elvenkind - Advantage to Stealth AND -5 to passive perception?
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8214233" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>That for me is the mystery in [USER=6777378]@Iry[/USER]'s RAI. Were I interpreting along similar lines, I would conclude that creatures <em>can hide</em> in dim light. That forces an exacting - and I think unsatisfying - reading of skulker and mask of the wild. In turn requiring to-hide and hidden to be separate things.</p><p></p><p>Unsatisfying, but not "<em>wrong</em>". Or at least, not wrong at the tables of those who apply that particular line of reasoning.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Something I've noticed here and in a few other threads (one on climbing, one on resting) is that when the rules admit more than one reading, there can be more than one way of playing by them. I would call your interpretation the stronger - I prefer it - but it doesn't have an exclusive claim to be playing "<em>by the rules</em>".</p><p></p><p>That's really what interests me most in this discussion. The meaning of an RPG rule is arrived at normatively, and local norms have the final say. I think what posters are doing when they reiterate (disputed) claims to the high-ground, is really a normative performance. Through careful laying out of arguments, and repetition, the idea is to influence others to see their interpretation as the normal one.</p><p></p><p>Once a reader accepts a version as normal, it seems that it becomes really hard for them to see how the other version could even be arrived at, because they have rejected that the words could even have the meanings needed to reach it. Perhaps that speaks to needs of language: the need to insist on valencies between words and meaning.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8214233, member: 71699"] That for me is the mystery in [USER=6777378]@Iry[/USER]'s RAI. Were I interpreting along similar lines, I would conclude that creatures [I]can hide[/I] in dim light. That forces an exacting - and I think unsatisfying - reading of skulker and mask of the wild. In turn requiring to-hide and hidden to be separate things. Unsatisfying, but not "[I]wrong[/I]". Or at least, not wrong at the tables of those who apply that particular line of reasoning. Something I've noticed here and in a few other threads (one on climbing, one on resting) is that when the rules admit more than one reading, there can be more than one way of playing by them. I would call your interpretation the stronger - I prefer it - but it doesn't have an exclusive claim to be playing "[I]by the rules[/I]". That's really what interests me most in this discussion. The meaning of an RPG rule is arrived at normatively, and local norms have the final say. I think what posters are doing when they reiterate (disputed) claims to the high-ground, is really a normative performance. Through careful laying out of arguments, and repetition, the idea is to influence others to see their interpretation as the normal one. Once a reader accepts a version as normal, it seems that it becomes really hard for them to see how the other version could even be arrived at, because they have rejected that the words could even have the meanings needed to reach it. Perhaps that speaks to needs of language: the need to insist on valencies between words and meaning. [/QUOTE]
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