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Cloak of Elvenkind - Advantage to Stealth AND -5 to passive perception?
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<blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 8216378" data-attributes="member: 6788736"><p>'Rely' is defined as 'be dependent on' or 'be the main pillar of' or 'depend on with full trust or confidence'.</p><p></p><p>I somewhat agree with what you say (not 'solely' which I retract), or to say it another way, rely does not mean 'rely on <em>to the exclusion of all other senses</em>', but rather a reference to relying on 'sight' for a Perception check means a Perception check, <em>with sight being the core, central and fundamental sense relied on.</em></p><p></p><p>Disadvantage to Perception checks that rely on sight (such as from a <em>Cloak of Elvenkind</em>, or from Dim light) can thus <strong>NOT </strong>apply to the following Perception checks (where a creature is hidden, but <em>cant </em>be seen):</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting a creature hidden in <em>Darkness </em>or other Heavy obscurement.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting an <em>invisible </em>hidden creature.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting a creature hidden behind total cover</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting a creature sneaking up behind you</li> </ul><p>That being the case, it would be absolutely perverse to apply the Disadvantage to Perception checks in the following cases (where a creature is hidden, but <em>can </em>also be seen):</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting a hidden creature peering around from total cover</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting a hidden Wood Elf in light obscurement such as rain.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting a Halfling hiding behind a Humans leg.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detecting a hidden Skulker, moving stealthily up a hallway.</li> </ul><p>Each of those Perception checks rely on senses <strong>other than sight</strong> (with hearing being as or more important than sight in every example).</p><p></p><p>TL;DR - Disadvantage to 'Perception checks that rely on sight' are rarer than people think - walking past a secret door, or scanning the horizon for signs of pursuing enemy creatures, or making out if a distant keeps walls are currently manned are all examples.</p><p></p><p>Detecting a hidden creature? The disadvantage almost never applies.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Flamestrike, post: 8216378, member: 6788736"] 'Rely' is defined as 'be dependent on' or 'be the main pillar of' or 'depend on with full trust or confidence'. I somewhat agree with what you say (not 'solely' which I retract), or to say it another way, rely does not mean 'rely on [I]to the exclusion of all other senses[/I]', but rather a reference to relying on 'sight' for a Perception check means a Perception check, [I]with sight being the core, central and fundamental sense relied on.[/I] Disadvantage to Perception checks that rely on sight (such as from a [I]Cloak of Elvenkind[/I], or from Dim light) can thus [B]NOT [/B]apply to the following Perception checks (where a creature is hidden, but [I]cant [/I]be seen): [LIST] [*]Detecting a creature hidden in [I]Darkness [/I]or other Heavy obscurement. [*]Detecting an [I]invisible [/I]hidden creature. [*]Detecting a creature hidden behind total cover [*]Detecting a creature sneaking up behind you [/LIST] That being the case, it would be absolutely perverse to apply the Disadvantage to Perception checks in the following cases (where a creature is hidden, but [I]can [/I]also be seen): [LIST] [*]Detecting a hidden creature peering around from total cover [*]Detecting a hidden Wood Elf in light obscurement such as rain. [*]Detecting a Halfling hiding behind a Humans leg. [*]Detecting a hidden Skulker, moving stealthily up a hallway. [/LIST] Each of those Perception checks rely on senses [B]other than sight[/B] (with hearing being as or more important than sight in every example). TL;DR - Disadvantage to 'Perception checks that rely on sight' are rarer than people think - walking past a secret door, or scanning the horizon for signs of pursuing enemy creatures, or making out if a distant keeps walls are currently manned are all examples. Detecting a hidden creature? The disadvantage almost never applies. [/QUOTE]
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Cloak of Elvenkind - Advantage to Stealth AND -5 to passive perception?
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