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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6993241" data-attributes="member: 42582">Nuff said.The difference between "can", "should" and "must" is (I think) the main thing that Vincent Baker is trying to get at. He notes that players of In A Wicked Age who bring expectations/habits from other games will introduce the rightward arrows he feels are missing. But he doesn't want this to be optional - he wants it to be mandatory to resolution.I'm not sure what is going on with your caveat. Assuming that something is true in the fiction isn't the same as actually generating leftward arrows (ie the fiction changes based on some mechanical event) or rightward arrows (ie the fiction informs or gives rise to some mechanical event).And for present purposes, "mere colour" remains that, I think, even if people really care about it. A really vivid narration which doesnt affect the resolution might be fun at the table - perhaps might even be the reason someone plays the game - but it doesn't generate arrows simply in virtue of that.Which also connects to the "dissociated mechanics" crowd. As you may recall, I think that "dissocated mechanics" is just a pejorative label for metagame, FitM-type mechanics. But that seems fairly orthogonal to the current discussion. For instance, Gygax characterises an AD&D saving throw vs poison in FitM terms - you don't know what has happened in the fiction until you make the roll - but a poison save certainly generates leftward arrows (either "I was injected with venom, and now amd dying/dead" or,"The snake tried to bite me, but didn't succeed in sinking its fangs into me").A poison saving throw can also be subjected to rightward arrows - for instance, Gygax notes that the virulence of a toxin may cause a saving throw adjustment, which the GM is at liberty to impose as s/he thinks is appropriate. This is a case of the fiction generating a rightward arrow that affects the mechanical event (an adjustment to the die roll to save vs poison).The same thing is true with that perennial favourite CaGI. Rightward arrow - there's a pit between the character and the desired target, so s/he can't be targetted by CaGI (which requires the pulled victim to end adjacent to the PC). Leftward arrow - the character uses CaGI, and now the enemy is adjacent here rather than over there.I also gave an example upthread of how layering narration over the top of the FitM mechanics can generate leftward arrows to fiction that will then, later on, support rightward arrows: the fighter in my game, whose use of CaGI it esablishes, in the fiction, that he is deft with a polearm, then being able to use his polearm to plug a water weird's spring.I don't really follow.What is "an adjudication of an individual character input"?For instance, player A declares "I cast Magic Missile at the goblin". A then rolls a die, gets a 5, and tells this to the GM, who replies "OK - the goblin dies!"In cube/cloud terms, this is cloud (something happens in the fiction - A's character casts a spell) > cube (A rolls a die) > cloud (goblin is dead). It's analogous to 2, 4, 6 in the OP diagram (no 3, because there is no fictional input into the circumstances of resolution; no 5, because we don't have any tracking of a hit-point tally but go straight from roll to fiction).Now consider player B, playing Burning Wheel, engaging the circles mechanics: player B declares "I am hoping to meet up with an old friend or contact who can help me decipher this darned scroll". B then rolls some dice, and gets 3 successes, and tells this to the GM, who replies "OK - you learn that an old class mate from wizard school turns up a the Green Griffon most evenings."In cube/cloud terms, this is clouds (something happens in the fiction - B's character is on the look out for a friend/contact who might help decipher the scroll) > cube (B rolls some dice) > cloud (B's character hears something about where such a contact might be met up with).In both examples the initial fiction involves some state or action of A or B's character; then mechanics are invoked; and then something new happens in the fiction - in the first case, a change of state in the goblin, in the second case a change of state in B's character.Most people would regard the combat example as traditional - the mechanics determine whether A can kill B - but would regard the circles example as "player narrative control" - because there is no causal connection between anything A's character did in the fiction and the fact that the old classmate has a habit of frequenting the Green Dragon. But you can't capture this contrast by looking at the distribution of arrows between cubes and clouds; nor by looking at the content of individual clouds.</blockquote>

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