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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5495485" data-attributes="member: 95493">DanMcS pretty much summed up what I was saying Jeff.However can you please run the numbers on the level 5 with 18 dex for me?If it works out the odds are a little better (as I expect they would be) then great, if they're somehow the same or worse then I might concede that point.Mostly I don't think two classes should be able to run away, in a unique way from any creature with all kinds of benefits for doing so when all the rest of the classes against that same creature can't. Now I'm not suggesting that these classes don't fill a role nor am I saying that it isn't cool being able to do it. I think its silly that a Monk (in 3.5 or PF) can tumble away from someone so easily when a fighter who is just as highly trained gets whacked because the fighter has more HP to get whacked with. I have found very little real world application of why tumbling was created the way it was in the first place but I don't mind it. I did think 3.5 made it FAR too easy and PF made it harder. I also know that the few characters I have seen who are still capable of tumbling do so quite effectively.So please, once again, run the numbers on a level 5 with 18 dex in the same way you did a level 2 with 17. I somehow think those extra 4 points will matter when at best a fighter who is scaling the same amount will get 3. That isn't including the bonuses such as feats, skill-bonus abilities and items you can get to bump a SKILL role when a fighter can bump their CMD by .... um... getting a new level and increasing their physicals?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 5495485, member: 95493"] DanMcS pretty much summed up what I was saying Jeff. However can you please run the numbers on the level 5 with 18 dex for me? If it works out the odds are a little better (as I expect they would be) then great, if they're somehow the same or worse then I [I]might[/I] concede that point. Mostly I don't think two classes should be able to run away, in a unique way from any creature with all kinds of benefits for doing so when all the rest of the classes against that same creature can't. Now I'm not suggesting that these classes don't fill a role nor am I saying that it isn't cool being able to do it. I think its silly that a Monk (in 3.5 or PF) can tumble away from someone so easily when a fighter who is just as highly trained gets whacked because the fighter has more HP to get whacked with. I have found very little real world application of why tumbling was created the way it was in the first place but I don't mind it. I did think 3.5 made it FAR too easy and PF made it harder. I also know that the few characters I have seen who are still capable of tumbling do so quite effectively. So please, once again, run the numbers on a level 5 with 18 dex in the same way you did a level 2 with 17. I somehow think those extra 4 points will matter when at best a fighter who is scaling the same amount will get 3. That isn't including the bonuses such as feats, skill-bonus abilities and items you can get to bump a SKILL role when a fighter can bump their CMD by .... um... getting a new level and increasing their physicals? [/QUOTE]

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