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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 9889954" data-attributes="member: 6716779">So basically theres been a bit of debate recently here and elsewhere about things like tier lists and things like Conjure Minor Elementals.  Alot of this does come back to youtubers such as Colby at d4 doing his class rankings and Treantmonks reaction videos to them.  Also 5.5 has gotten a bit older and we are seeing what works and what doesn't. Back in 3E the term CoDzilla was thrown around. It mostly referred to natural spell feat/overall druidic power level and a cleric using divine Metamagic to make buffs last 24/7. The cleric at least was mostly a high level theory craft build. Druid not so much it wasn't a very popular  class in any event regardless of its power.  Recently Treantmonk has also been mentioning wisdom saves a lot in his videos. You may have also noticed I've been pushing Clerics and Druids heavily even over wizards into tier 3 for a while. That is related imho and #ECMO3 has also been mentioning wisdom saves a lot.   Metas changed imho and I dont think the hive mind has caught up yet. One thing I do rate highly in 5.5 is emanations.  Translation Cleric or Druid Goes For A Walk. CoDGFAW. Or teleport.  Early on there were hypothetical theory craft builds around dragging a cleric around with spiritguardians active. Thats mostly a theory craft idea imho. Spirit Guardians is ball breaking all by itself without theoretical cheese involved.  A Druid has access to Conjure Animals but the secret sauce is Conjure Woodland Beings. Wisdom save force damage 5d8 base. Druids can also cast shilleagh RAW with a shield in hand. Not hard to add true strike to that combo. And wrath of the sea or starry form hunter..........  Teleport effects are also fun. Be an elf, shadar kai, or take fae touched feat now you get bonus action teleport. Throw in weapon masteries involving forces movement...... CoD goes for a teleport worst abuse side by side comparison?  Precast spirit guardians (4th lvl) on a war cleric vs pre cast Conjure Minor Elemental (5th level) on a Bladesinger.  The bladesinger casts a beautiful scorching ray (lvl 4 or 5)into opponent. One or two miss the rest hit. Buckets of damage single target. Warcleric didn't cast a 5th level spirit guardians. Goes for a walk. Casts steel wind strike. 4d8+6d10 AoE. Buckets of damage. Gets to teleport again. Still has bonus action available.  Can 1. Telepirt as a bonus action if available, have another attack as a warckeric, or cast concentration free spiritual weapon as a war cleric.  Spirit  guardians and CME keep running but who won that round? Specific subclass vs subclass and even in a 5MWD scenario I dont see the bladesinger winning that.  I said fireballs over rated. This is why. Power creep and better options. Impact, frequency, cost, synergy. Or you can do a white room theory craft.  War cleric switches on level 3, peaks lvl 10. Druis are similar. Combine with good martial build or two and a controller...... Good emanations are S tier imho. So is the command spell. Command:approach. Just saying.</blockquote>

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