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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9892452" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I. Don't. Care.The design is what the game is, and not only can but should be evaluated for all of its contents, not merely the commonly-used parts. The whole thing matters, and if there are designs in it that are ill-considered or outright deleterious, they should be addressed (fixed if fixable, cut if not.) Whether or not it shows up at the table with meaningful frequency, as argued above, is irrelevant to whether it is good design or not. If Wizards genuinely almost never get there, then they're paying out the nose with horrendously weak early levels, to get nothing for it. If Wizards do get there, then they're altering reality, and so the power is real. Or if you don't like wish, what about time stop or various other incredibly powerful things?Either way, there's a design problem here. We have a class built around the idea of struggling mightily for ages until you finally come into Phenomenal Cosmic Power that overwhelms basically anything else except...other people who have Phenomenal Cosmic Power. If the power never arrives...then it's a class that struggles mightily for ages for no reason. If the power does arrive...then it blows everything else out of the water. Frequency of achieving that power is irrelevant.Frankly, I don't really care whether they're grognards or not; that's not particularly relevant to me. They're part of the D&D community, and their gameplay desires have entirely valid expression. They can and should receive well-constructed, effective support for their preferences, so that they can enjoy the game the way they like to.But that isn't what's happening here at all. Instead, it is precisely the reverse. People--most specifically [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] but to a lesser extent [USER=6716779]@Zardnaar[/USER] and others--are saying that we should be doing the reverse of what you're saying. That we should be dismissing modern sensibilities and forcing anyone who plays D&D to have the old-school experience.That's why I said what I said. You are treating my rebuttal to the claim that we should enforce the old-school style as though it were the initial argument. It was not, and is not. It was, and is, a rebuttal.</blockquote>

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