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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9892539" data-attributes="member: 23751">I notice that you keep cutting out that there was an average of 1 in 5 that the magic user would just plain die whenever he cast the spell, yet you keep saying that what you care about is the design of the game. Well, that's the design of the game and you are avoiding evaluating Wish regarding it.  It kept Wish from being used unless things were so dire the magic user was going to die anyway.They're grognards explains why Lanefan and [USER=6716779]@Zardnaar[/USER]  is talking so much about how it used to be, and how Lanefan he plays it now.  They are evaluating the game based on it's design and how it was played back when 1e and 2e were going strong.None of them are advocating that everyone be forced to play the old school way.  They are talking about their experiences regarding the way it was back then, and to some extent [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] is talking about how his game is now.The one thing I saw Lanefan talk about being simply a part of the game in general is frustration, and he is right.  Frustration is a part of virtually every game, because it comes along side and is a companion to failure.  Players will hit cold die rolling, which is frustrating.  Cold die rolling will cause failure, which is doubly frustrating because it isn't the fault of the player that things failed.  Cold die rolling will even cause some well planned and executed(other than the die rolling) plans to fail, which is frustrating.The only way to get rid of the above frustration is for the DM to step in and fudge things so that the players don't fail. For some of us, though, never failing is itself frustrating.  And yes, I know you have said that you aren't advocating for the PCs to never be defeated, but that same advocation is for frustration to be a part of the game.</blockquote>

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