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<blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 1871537" data-attributes="member: 812">shilsen: I was using &quot;ulterior&quot; to mean &quot;not altruistic&quot;. My bad, sorry.Sure, some people are doing just what they say they're doing. Or at least they think they are...Well, that's the job of the DM, isn't it? To come up with situations in which these things are probable. Or at least to ensure that whatever DOES happen (be it assassins or butterflies) are things that make logical sense from the point of view of whoever is instigating them. Why DOESN'T he send his best assassins? Well, maybe he needs them kept alive for some reason. Whatever.It's certainly one of the primary jobs of the DM -- to keep coming up with &quot;hooks&quot; that involve the players in adventure but don't feel forced or contrived. Every group has its own threshold for how forced is too forced, but every group has to deal with it in some fashion. Part of being a great DM is being able to hook parties easily and effortlessly.Zelda: I don't think anybody's suggesting (at least I'm not) that ONLY bad things should happen. What I've been trying to say is that great stories come out of heroes triumphing (or not, as the case may be) over adversity. In order to have adversity to triumph over, some bad things have to happen.That's not to say that an evening in the tavern has to include death and destruction. It can include a fun night of gambling, or a drinking contest, or whatever the DM and players think is fun. It remains the DM's job to come up with stuff to happen, just as it remains the players' jobs to engage with what the DM provides. Out of those two roles comes the fun of the game -- however you play it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="barsoomcore, post: 1871537, member: 812"] shilsen: I was using "ulterior" to mean "not altruistic". My bad, sorry. Sure, some people are doing just what they say they're doing. Or at least they think they are... Well, that's the job of the DM, isn't it? To come up with situations in which these things are probable. Or at least to ensure that whatever DOES happen (be it assassins or butterflies) are things that make logical sense from the point of view of whoever is instigating them. Why DOESN'T he send his best assassins? Well, maybe he needs them kept alive for some reason. Whatever. It's certainly one of the primary jobs of the DM -- to keep coming up with "hooks" that involve the players in adventure but don't feel forced or contrived. Every group has its own threshold for how forced is too forced, but every group has to deal with it in some fashion. Part of being a great DM is being able to hook parties easily and effortlessly. Zelda: I don't think anybody's suggesting (at least I'm not) that ONLY bad things should happen. What I've been trying to say is that great stories come out of heroes triumphing (or not, as the case may be) over adversity. In order to have adversity to triumph over, some bad things have to happen. That's not to say that an evening in the tavern has to include death and destruction. It can include a fun night of gambling, or a drinking contest, or whatever the DM and players think is fun. It remains the DM's job to come up with stuff to happen, just as it remains the players' jobs to engage with what the DM provides. Out of those two roles comes the fun of the game -- however you play it. [/QUOTE]

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