Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Collected Core Handbook Errata
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="knizia.fan" data-source="post: 4338957" data-attributes="member: 69925"><p>The diagram in the book is correct. The 2 squares you mention are outside of the burst not because of cover, but because they are out of range. To go around the corner of a wall, you can't go diagonally. PHB p. 273 says you count range from the origin by taking one step to <em>all</em> adjacent squares (allowing you to cut corners only for the first step), and then count further steps normally (without diagonally cutting corners). So those 2 squares are at a range of 3 from the origin square. The statue doesn't fill its square like a wall, so you can count through its space.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, if the only line you can draw to the target square passes along a wall, you don't have line of effect. The rules say the line is blocked if it passes through <em>or touches</em> a blocking obstacle. (It seems that that the 3.5E concept of a spread no longer exists in 4E -- no more fireballs going around corners.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the rules are OK as written. You seem to be mixing up line-of-sight/line-of-effect with cover, but the rules are slightly different for those two concepts. PHB p. 273 is about line-of-sight/line-of-effect. If you can draw a line to any point of a square, even if all the corner points are blocked, you can target that square with an effect.</p><p></p><p>PHB p. 281 is about cover. Superior cover only checks to see if lines to the target square's <em>corners</em> are blocked. So no, a small obstruction doesn't automatically provide superior cover, because we're not checking every single line of sight to see if 4 are blocked. We only check the 4 lines to the corners.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can have all 4 target space corners blocked but still have line of effect. For example, an archer behind an arrow slit would have all of her space's corners blocked, but one would still have line of effect to her space. She has superior cover, but one can still shoot her or throw a spell at her. The arrow slit is the classic example of the difference between cover and line of effect. It's harder to show this happening on a map, but you could have:</p><p></p><p>[code]</p><p>. . . . . . . . . . .</p><p>. . . . . . . . . . w</p><p>. X . . . . . . . . .</p><p>m . . X . . . . . . .</p><p>. . . . . . . . . . .</p><p>[/code]</p><p></p><p>If I've drawn this right, the walls 'X' keep the wizard 'w' from drawing a line to any corner of the monster's 'm' space, but he can still draw a line to the middle of the right edge of the 'm' space. So 'w' has line-of-effect to 'm', but 'm' has superior cover from 'w'.</p><p></p><p>-- k.fan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="knizia.fan, post: 4338957, member: 69925"] The diagram in the book is correct. The 2 squares you mention are outside of the burst not because of cover, but because they are out of range. To go around the corner of a wall, you can't go diagonally. PHB p. 273 says you count range from the origin by taking one step to [I]all[/I] adjacent squares (allowing you to cut corners only for the first step), and then count further steps normally (without diagonally cutting corners). So those 2 squares are at a range of 3 from the origin square. The statue doesn't fill its square like a wall, so you can count through its space. Actually, if the only line you can draw to the target square passes along a wall, you don't have line of effect. The rules say the line is blocked if it passes through [I]or touches[/I] a blocking obstacle. (It seems that that the 3.5E concept of a spread no longer exists in 4E -- no more fireballs going around corners.) I think the rules are OK as written. You seem to be mixing up line-of-sight/line-of-effect with cover, but the rules are slightly different for those two concepts. PHB p. 273 is about line-of-sight/line-of-effect. If you can draw a line to any point of a square, even if all the corner points are blocked, you can target that square with an effect. PHB p. 281 is about cover. Superior cover only checks to see if lines to the target square's [I]corners[/I] are blocked. So no, a small obstruction doesn't automatically provide superior cover, because we're not checking every single line of sight to see if 4 are blocked. We only check the 4 lines to the corners. You can have all 4 target space corners blocked but still have line of effect. For example, an archer behind an arrow slit would have all of her space's corners blocked, but one would still have line of effect to her space. She has superior cover, but one can still shoot her or throw a spell at her. The arrow slit is the classic example of the difference between cover and line of effect. It's harder to show this happening on a map, but you could have: [code] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . w . X . . . . . . . . . m . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [/code] If I've drawn this right, the walls 'X' keep the wizard 'w' from drawing a line to any corner of the monster's 'm' space, but he can still draw a line to the middle of the right edge of the 'm' space. So 'w' has line-of-effect to 'm', but 'm' has superior cover from 'w'. -- k.fan [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Collected Core Handbook Errata
Top