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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6223195" data-attributes="member: 4937">How much CR do you want the final monster to have?The basic rule for advancing size class on a 3.X monster is:+1 Size Class, +4 STR, +4 CON, -2 DEX, +3 Natural Armor BonusIt's kinda like a mini-template.So one approach would be to take a troll, triple the normal HD (and all that implies), and apply the above modification 3 total times.  To capture, "dark and evil that has existed since the world was born", then select and apply a template on top of that to get to the CR level that you want - fiendish, half-fiend, etc.Triple HD troll + 3 size increases + fiendish template gets you something like:Unique Troll: CR 16; Colossal Giant; HD 18d8+216; hp 297; Init -1 (Dex); Spd 30 ft.; AC 17 (-8 size, -1 Dex, +16 natural); Atk 2 claws +17 melee (2d8+12), bite +12 melee (2d8+6); Face/Reach: 15 ft. by 15 ft./20 ft.; SA Rend 4d8+18, Smite Good; SQ: DR 10/magic, Regeneration 8, Resistance (Cold and Fire) 10, scent, SR 23, darkvision 90 ft.; AL CE; SV Fort +23, Ref +4, Will +6; Str 35, Dex 8, Con 35, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 6. Skills and Feats: Listen +17, Spot +17; Alertness, Iron Will, Power Attack, Powerful Charge, Cleave, Large and in ChargeI'd tweak that slightly on an ad hoc basis to get where you want to be with it - collosal is actually a huge disadvantage under the base rules - and to make it more well rounded for its CR.  The above is probably closer to CR 13 or 14 in IMO.  For example, CR 16 creatures probably need a ranged attack, faster movement, and slightly higher AC.  I might ad hoc in the Elite stat array to make the stats more well rounded as well, and do something like 'slippery mind' to do something extra about that low Will save.So, add in ad hoc, 'Rock Throwing' and 'Rock Catching' as a giant, and add the 'Slippery Mind' quality.  Maybe bump up natural AC to +24 to get the AC to 25, alter wisdom to 13 to bump Will save to +8 and listen and spot to +19, and change the movement rate to 40'.   Maybe play around with the other ability scores as well using the elite stat array as a guide.  Don't get too hidebound to the rules.  It's a unique creature; do what you want with it.Also note, my balance is based of 3.0.  If you are using 3.X, particularly late 3.X, you'll need to go much higher for the CR.  And if you want to go higher on the CR, use the half-fiend template in place of the fiendish template, and you get a pretty nasty monster.</blockquote>

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