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Combat actions before combat?
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<blockquote data-quote="Amaroq" data-source="post: 5139586" data-attributes="member: 15470"><p>So, the important thing is to make sure that the <strong>player</strong> feels like their actions mean something, while the <strong>character</strong> doesn't gain an over-the-top advantage for this.</p><p></p><p>A player opens the door expecting an attack, with his shield up and prepared for an attack. Here's what I'd give him:</p><p> a.) He cannot be Surprised by things in the room - at least, not at the door.</p><p> b.) He might have Surprise over things in the room, if his Stealth beat their Perception</p><p> c.) He has the full benefits to AC and Reflex of having a shield. Just like he ought to. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> d.) He doesn't get any "Full Defense" bonuses.</p><p></p><p>Seriously - "holding up my shield ready for an attack" is flavor text, not an action!</p><p></p><p>A player aims a crossbow at a door, excellent, waiting for somebody to come through. Here's what I'd give him:</p><p> a.) He has his crossbow out and loaded.</p><p> b.) He cannot be surprised by anybody coming through the door, and in fact, is pretty much guaranteed to participate in a Surprise round if somebody comes through the door. </p><p> c.) He's almost guaranteed to be surprised by anybody coming through any other entrance to his location. I might even run a "everybody on both sides but you participates in it" surprise round.</p><p> d.) He does not have a readied action.</p><p></p><p>Its .. <strong>almost</strong> flavor text - except for the implications on Surprise. For that, I'd also say, look you can guarantee that you aren't surprised in the next minute or two, but your concentration falters after that: you can't just guard a door with no chance of Surprise indefinitely. Oh, and if you want to try to do that for an entire five-minute-rest - okay, hunters can maintain a high degree of focus for five minutes, so I'll allow that, but while the remainder of the party get their rest, you do not: you're <strong>doing</strong> something besides resting.</p><p></p><p>Surprise rules are almost <strong>always</strong> relevant, in my mind: the one time they aren't is when you have two parties conversing or otherwise both aware of each other, and expecting that hostilities may break out. </p><p></p><p>The way I run Stealth vs Passive Perception for a typical encounter, its quite possible to wind up with members of both parties acting in the Surprise round, while other members of both parties do not.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Annoying the other players might be a <strong>feature</strong>, not a bug: social feedback may press your players to not waste your time with this actions.</p><p></p><p>Alternately, if you want to punish <strong>just</strong> the character of the overly-specific player. Our character coming through the door has his shield up as described. "Okay, you burst into the room with a Surprise round, which you use to take the Total Defense action. Everybody else, what do you do?"</p><p></p><p>So our character who has been "too cautious" finds himself standing in the doorway, defending himself against attacks which can't happen until the first full round of combat ... and learns pretty quickly not to do that kind of thing in the future.</p><p></p><p>Though, seriously, I'd be pretty angry if my DM did that to me; I'd rather he interpret it as flavor text as I described above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Amaroq, post: 5139586, member: 15470"] So, the important thing is to make sure that the [b]player[/b] feels like their actions mean something, while the [b]character[/b] doesn't gain an over-the-top advantage for this. A player opens the door expecting an attack, with his shield up and prepared for an attack. Here's what I'd give him: a.) He cannot be Surprised by things in the room - at least, not at the door. b.) He might have Surprise over things in the room, if his Stealth beat their Perception c.) He has the full benefits to AC and Reflex of having a shield. Just like he ought to. :D d.) He doesn't get any "Full Defense" bonuses. Seriously - "holding up my shield ready for an attack" is flavor text, not an action! A player aims a crossbow at a door, excellent, waiting for somebody to come through. Here's what I'd give him: a.) He has his crossbow out and loaded. b.) He cannot be surprised by anybody coming through the door, and in fact, is pretty much guaranteed to participate in a Surprise round if somebody comes through the door. c.) He's almost guaranteed to be surprised by anybody coming through any other entrance to his location. I might even run a "everybody on both sides but you participates in it" surprise round. d.) He does not have a readied action. Its .. [b]almost[/b] flavor text - except for the implications on Surprise. For that, I'd also say, look you can guarantee that you aren't surprised in the next minute or two, but your concentration falters after that: you can't just guard a door with no chance of Surprise indefinitely. Oh, and if you want to try to do that for an entire five-minute-rest - okay, hunters can maintain a high degree of focus for five minutes, so I'll allow that, but while the remainder of the party get their rest, you do not: you're [b]doing[/b] something besides resting. Surprise rules are almost [b]always[/b] relevant, in my mind: the one time they aren't is when you have two parties conversing or otherwise both aware of each other, and expecting that hostilities may break out. The way I run Stealth vs Passive Perception for a typical encounter, its quite possible to wind up with members of both parties acting in the Surprise round, while other members of both parties do not. Annoying the other players might be a [b]feature[/b], not a bug: social feedback may press your players to not waste your time with this actions. Alternately, if you want to punish [b]just[/b] the character of the overly-specific player. Our character coming through the door has his shield up as described. "Okay, you burst into the room with a Surprise round, which you use to take the Total Defense action. Everybody else, what do you do?" So our character who has been "too cautious" finds himself standing in the doorway, defending himself against attacks which can't happen until the first full round of combat ... and learns pretty quickly not to do that kind of thing in the future. Though, seriously, I'd be pretty angry if my DM did that to me; I'd rather he interpret it as flavor text as I described above. [/QUOTE]
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