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<blockquote data-quote="Amaroq" data-source="post: 5150822" data-attributes="member: 15470">The part, in Bold, seems to me to be precisely the definition of &quot;have surprise&quot;.They knew combat was going to start, they were ready, and they all rushed in together, coordinated. That's Surprise, just as it would be for an ambush or any other case. If the defenders in the room are also aware that they're coming, they may be facing the door, weapons out, locked and loaded, ready to fire the instant the door opens. If that's the case, there's no surprise, and you use the normal Initiative rules.First, because they're the rules. And second, because they actually make sense. If eight defenders have &quot;actions readied on the door opening&quot;, which one goes first? If the four attackers also have &quot;actions readied on the door opening&quot;, do their actions happen before or after the actions of those in the room? No. You don't even play that game. You have everybody roll initiative, and tell you what they're going to do.Any attempt to &quot;ready an action on combat starting&quot; is an attempt to shoehorn oneself into a Surprise round via a different mechanic than those explicitly stated in the PHB and DMG. So is, in my opinion, the effort to take a combat action outside of combat, e.g., declaring &quot;Total Defense&quot; before opening the door.That's why I argued - back in <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/274346-combat-actions-before-combat.html#post5139586" target="_blank">Post 15 of this thread</a> - that a key role of the DM is adjudicating descriptions into actions and game effects, and that in the particular case we're discussing, the proper adjudication is approximately &quot;Nice role-playing. No mechanical effect.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Amaroq, post: 5150822, member: 15470"] The part, in Bold, seems to me to be precisely the definition of "have surprise". They knew combat was going to start, they were ready, and they all rushed in together, coordinated. That's Surprise, just as it would be for an ambush or any other case. If the defenders in the room are also aware that they're coming, they may be facing the door, weapons out, locked and loaded, ready to fire the instant the door opens. If that's the case, there's no surprise, and you use the normal Initiative rules. First, because they're the rules. And second, because they actually make sense. If eight defenders have "actions readied on the door opening", which one goes first? If the four attackers also have "actions readied on the door opening", do their actions happen before or after the actions of those in the room? No. You don't even play that game. You have everybody roll initiative, and tell you what they're going to do. Any attempt to "ready an action on combat starting" is an attempt to shoehorn oneself into a Surprise round via a different mechanic than those explicitly stated in the PHB and DMG. So is, in my opinion, the effort to take a combat action outside of combat, e.g., declaring "Total Defense" before opening the door. That's why I argued - back in [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/274346-combat-actions-before-combat.html#post5139586"]Post 15 of this thread[/URL] - that a key role of the DM is adjudicating descriptions into actions and game effects, and that in the particular case we're discussing, the proper adjudication is approximately "Nice role-playing. No mechanical effect." [/QUOTE]

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