Combat Advantage 1: Power Knowledge

[CapnZapp]

Apologies for starting a new thread, but I couldn't find an existing one on this subject (I even looked up all threads started by EP).

Just saw this (through the NSFW "contest"): http://www.emeraldpresspdf.com/resources/ComAdv1_PowerKnowledge_v2.pdf

Don't know what discussion/feedback you've gotten on this one, EP, but I must say there are several "thirdeditionisms" and design mistakes.

In no particular order:
* keying the mechanism on Int alone. In fourth edition, it's easy to create a character with Int 10. Not because you are powergaming or using Int as a dump stat, but because you have chosen a race-class-build combo that simply isn't designed to gain anything out of Intelligence. All these characters (that are balanced in the normal game) suddenly lose out of the pdf's rather significant advantages. Why? And why is the feature designed so that the class that already is the most flexible is the one that gains the most flexibility (Wizard)?

In short, thinking "this feature depends on intellectual capacity and memory and therefore keys off Intelligence" is not good 4E design. Look at Forgotten Realms for a much better solution, and use "best mental ability" instead. Allowing a character to use Wisdom or Charisma is much more inclusive, and (I believe) there are no builds that actively discourage dumping all three mental stats.

The point isn't to ensure all characters are included, but all builds. Individual characters built with 10 Int, 10 Wis and 8 Cha still lose out; but that's a much smaller problem - because (again, AFAIK) that's the player's choice; not the build telling him so.

 

[CapnZapp]

(cont'd)

Of course, then you might ask yourself "are stupid fighters really so stupid they can't access even purely physical stunts?". I mean, why not simply say that you have a "body memory" that makes this power knowledge innate and not depending on stats?

For example, changing the rule to apply to one at-will, one encounter and one daily power of levels chosen by the player (effectively treating all characters as having a +6 modifier, but without the possibility to select three encounter powers).

This both simplifies the rule and makes the playing-field even. Already the rule looks much more 4E-ish to me!

* rules for temporary increases or decreases to your Intelligence score. This is very 3E and simply has no place in 4E. I'd simply lose it all, keeping the benefits static throughout play.

* time requirements for power selections. Again very 3E. Simply chuck all of this, and simply say "you can change your selections each Extended Rest". Have this take no additional time (other than the extended rest).

* why aren't utility powers considered? I would have thought these would be high on the list.

* why special rules for wizards. I'd drop these.


By this time the pdf page can be reduced to simply "you gain the knowledge of one additional at-will, encounter, utility and daily power. This does not change the number of powers you can use in a day; only that by an extended rest you can switch out the subset you'll use for that day". Add an example or two and you're done!

 

[EP]

I've heard that a couple of times regarding the 3e-isms this particular edition seems to invoke and it makes sense considering it was drafted very shortly after 4e came out and my brain was still working in 3e mode.

In all honesty, the premier edition of CA was designed for one person in particular who was still stuck in the 3e mindset and still prefers that style of open-ended playing today (that's his take on it, whereas we tend to disagree on which version is more open-ended). When it comes down to it, expanding power selection seems to go against 4e's crazy balance issues (everything's TOO perfectly balanced in some cases) and can easily be countered with a polite request from the DM.

However, you are right. There are other ways to do so and I would even go so far as to revise it to any ability score rather than just the mental abilities. If you're a fighter and Strength is what you use to swing your sword, then a high Strength score should allow you to swap out powers. Especially since you can select a physical or mental ability for many facets of the game (your AC can be based off Wisdom, if you like). In short, really, Power Knowledge does not have as much necessity as I thought it would, but it's there for those trying 4e and are 3e fans. Like everything else in the RPG world, there are many different ways to try it and this is one. If anything in CA can open discussion on content and rules, I'm happy.

 

[EP]

BTW, thanks for the feedback on CA1. I just wanted to mention something else before getting packed for the trip and my girlfriend finally puts her foot down.

If anyone does have another take, or "fix," on any CA content, send them in and I may even put them in a future edition. The whole purpose of CA was to try out new material that was untested and uncertain to get a reaction and NSFW has really taught me that getting as many ideas as possible from as many people can turn up some very cool things. Our NSFW: Darkvision came up with some very freaky stuff, par example. So if anyone has any revised versions of existing CA material, please send it in to warden at emeraldpresspdf dot com and have a good hard look at it.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thank you for your gracious reply to my not-so-gracious feedback.

Power variation in itself certainly isn't unneccessitated in 4E. Especially at low heroic. I gave my players an extra level 1 daily at first level just for this reason (and not to have to play a gazillion different characters to try out a reasonable chunk of the low level powers...)

 

[EP]

No worries. One thing about this type of work is that it is very open to criticism and not everyone is going to like your ideas. And I was on my out to the cottage, so you can never catch me in the bad mood when that happens.

 

[77IM]

To play devil's advocate to the Capn, I think in 4e, Int is a total dump stat. The Int skills aren't all that good, so if you've got a reasonable Dex, there's no reason to put any points into Int. Contrast with most other ability scores, which do several things that are useful to everyone (often just by having more useful skills). So giving every player some additional way to use Int seems fair.

-- 77IM

 

[Stalker0]

One thing I think could be cool for this is instead of using int, or your primary stat...use your secondary stat.

A cleric's charisma, a paladin's wisdom, a fighter's wisdom, etc. That makes character's that have lower primary stats and higher secondary stats more viable, as they get a wider range or powers.

 

[CapnZapp]

So giving every player some additional way to use Int seems fair.

No. 4E doesn't work that way, not with the default character generation method (point buy).

Several character concepts need to put an 8 or a 10 into Int to be effective at what they do.

Giving Wizards a big freebie while presenting a say Fighter with the choice of either sacrificing his effectiveness at what he is supposed to do or simply not getting any freebie does not seem fair to me.

There really isn't any dump stats in 4E anymore, not in the sense "having a low score here is convenient and will enable me to boost my primary stat".

Instead, any given build is more or less expected to have an 8 or a 10 in some statistic. And which statistic that is, is more determined by the class and build than the player's personal inclinations.

In 4E all classes are assumed to be equal. There's precious little left of the original "world simulation" thinking where being smart equals a high Intelligence. In 4E, you'd better treat Int as any other stat - it's just something a certain percentage of builds uses to power their attacks.

---

Stepping back for a minute, let us ask ourselves: is there any valuable point to be made by keying these bonuses to one particular stat (say, Intelligence) alone?

In other words, is it a desirable outcome that some classes get a much bigger benefit than others? Is there something inherent to Fighters, Rogues or Clerics that makes them "deserve" a rougher deal than Wizards?

The answer is "no, there aren't". Could this indicate the designer simply weren't thinking things through, not being in the 4E mindset?

If you instead imagine all classes getting equal benefit from this rule, and that the "Int rule" never existed, you should see how much better the rule becomes, and without any drawbacks to boot!

 

[EP]

I'm going to provide a new article in Combat Advantage called "Take Two" that will offer replies, opinions, and alternate ideas for Power Knowledge. I would like to take the suggestions given here as alternate options for increasing a character's power selection or accept any direct submissions anyone might be willing to offer. Full credit for any suggestions or revisions will be given, as will a link to this thread.

Depending on space (and time), this will be in either the next issue on July 6th or in August's edition.