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Combat as war, sport, or ??
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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8827999" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>No, it doesn’t. Looking at any real war shows it’s a silly claim. Wars start and end all the time without one side being obliterated without a chance to see it coming, etc. </p><p></p><p>Not at all. It means the referee is playing fair. There are 217 kobolds in this dungeon, they’ve have 7 years to dig in, they’ve built these traps, and fortified those positions. If the players decide to engage that and manage to beat it, it means the players beat it. If they fail, they fail. This is how most hexcrawls and dungeoncrawls work.</p><p></p><p>Importantly, if the referee adds extra stuff to the dungeon specifically to win, they’re now a crappy adversarial referee. Whatever you prepped is all there is. If it’s not reasonable or justifiable in game, then you’ve crossed into adversarial refereeing. </p><p></p><p>Your responses are indicative that you haven’t played this style because you’re mischaracterizing it. </p><p></p><p>Winning a battle doesn’t mean killing the opponent. Ransom, capture, etc. </p><p></p><p>It seems that a lot of people have a lot of different definitions of sport. And war. I’m using them in the common, natural language meaning of those words. Sport, sportsmanlike, good sport, etc. </p><p></p><p>It’s not sport if you have incredibly lopsided advantages to one side or the other. If you earn those advantages through cunning and gameplay, that approaches combat as war, but, importantly, the monsters need to be able to respond in kind. It’s shenanigans all around that gets you combat as war.</p><p></p><p>If, however, the system itself gives one side those advantages, that’s neither war nor sport. No advantages were earned and the fight is unfairly lopsided.</p><p></p><p>Weirdly, if we were to flip things around, give the wild advantage to the minsters, it would almost be a horror game. You’re playing a CR1/4 goblin against a level 1 adventuring party build by an avid power gamer. Go. Might see a sudden flourishing of combat as war. You can bet the PC goblins will start doing everything they can think of to avoid a direct fight. </p><p></p><p>Puzzle, spectacle, and wrestling (fake sport done purely for entertainment) are all high on my list for descriptions of 5E combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8827999, member: 86653"] No, it doesn’t. Looking at any real war shows it’s a silly claim. Wars start and end all the time without one side being obliterated without a chance to see it coming, etc. Not at all. It means the referee is playing fair. There are 217 kobolds in this dungeon, they’ve have 7 years to dig in, they’ve built these traps, and fortified those positions. If the players decide to engage that and manage to beat it, it means the players beat it. If they fail, they fail. This is how most hexcrawls and dungeoncrawls work. Importantly, if the referee adds extra stuff to the dungeon specifically to win, they’re now a crappy adversarial referee. Whatever you prepped is all there is. If it’s not reasonable or justifiable in game, then you’ve crossed into adversarial refereeing. Your responses are indicative that you haven’t played this style because you’re mischaracterizing it. Winning a battle doesn’t mean killing the opponent. Ransom, capture, etc. It seems that a lot of people have a lot of different definitions of sport. And war. I’m using them in the common, natural language meaning of those words. Sport, sportsmanlike, good sport, etc. It’s not sport if you have incredibly lopsided advantages to one side or the other. If you earn those advantages through cunning and gameplay, that approaches combat as war, but, importantly, the monsters need to be able to respond in kind. It’s shenanigans all around that gets you combat as war. If, however, the system itself gives one side those advantages, that’s neither war nor sport. No advantages were earned and the fight is unfairly lopsided. Weirdly, if we were to flip things around, give the wild advantage to the minsters, it would almost be a horror game. You’re playing a CR1/4 goblin against a level 1 adventuring party build by an avid power gamer. Go. Might see a sudden flourishing of combat as war. You can bet the PC goblins will start doing everything they can think of to avoid a direct fight. Puzzle, spectacle, and wrestling (fake sport done purely for entertainment) are all high on my list for descriptions of 5E combat. [/QUOTE]
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