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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8828956" data-attributes="member: 87792">As ever I find the Combat as War/Combat as Sport dichotomy hilarious - or rather the self-aggrandizement of the players who think that their version of D&D has something to do with war.I started my gaming in the 90s - the TSR era. But I didn't start with D&D and I started at probably the only point in history where D&D wasn't the most popular game for newbies (the White Wolf games were). And at the time D&D was where you went for superhero hack & slash and for good reason.Far from "combat as war" D&D was the game for consequence free combat. There are no death spirals in D&D; you are at full capability at 1hp. There are no long term injuries in D&D; even at the worst hit points are recovered on a timescale about that of marathon runners recovering fatigue. An arrow to the knee isn't a retirement injury. The PCs are all super-tough and most of them will be able to tank a crossbow bolt with no ill effect. And even death can be reversed. Using magic is pretty much entirely reliable and spells don't fail. And they seldom cost anything except the opportunity cost of not using a different spell. And nothing really weakens you except a few undead and a few spellcasters.Meanwhile I started on GURPS and WFRP, with WoD mixed in there. Games where weapons could one shot you. Where even if you won you might well be seriously hurt and bleeding out. And one of the huge improvements WFRP 2e made over 1e was that magic could blow up in your face.D&D is not and has never been "combat as war". And the people claim their D&D is just look silly, like paintballers claiming to be warriors or fans of The Boys claiming that The Boys is a realistic show when compared to the MCU. Possibly The Boys is realistic compared to the MCU - but it is still a superhero show with characters who can fly under their own power. There's nothing wrong with enjoying superhero shows - but there is something wrong with pretending that your superhero show is realistic and using it to sneer at people who embrace the tropes that are woven throughout yours. And there's nothing wrong with larger than life characters in an RPG who are expected to win (but don't always) through their standard techniques and who take almost no long term consequences, but please stop pretending that that's war.</blockquote>

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