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<blockquote data-quote="UngainlyTitan" data-source="post: 8831677" data-attributes="member: 28487">I question the divide here, is the divide the &quot;party character stance&quot;, i.e. &quot;Heroic&quot; vs &quot;Pragmatic&quot; or a level further back, &quot;challenging play&quot; vs protagonistic play?I think that one could play pragmatically with in a game framing where the party characters are expected to be competent and have internal resources to survive routine challenges and heroic play in a game where the ability of the characters to survive challenges requires careful planning (skilled play) and resource management (as well as vice versa).I would agree that these things exist on a spectrum, more a board Venn diagram type sets with a lot of intersecting overlap. I am not at all convinced that 2.x had a position on the heroic/pragmatic axis but was built to support playstyles where the characters were protagonists in their own story (heroic or otherwise) but still supported a more setting/environment challenge style of play but 4e was more explicitly protoganstic (everyone as a movie action hero - perhaps somewhat of an exaggeration but I hope you get my meaning). 5e has rolled back to a more middle ground but provides more support for the character self-sufficiency (hence the frequent complaints about it being &quot;EASY MODE&quot;)Or of course, I could be completely mistaking your position and we are talking at cross purposes here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngainlyTitan, post: 8831677, member: 28487"] I question the divide here, is the divide the "party character stance", i.e. "Heroic" vs "Pragmatic" or a level further back, "challenging play" vs protagonistic play? I think that one could play pragmatically with in a game framing where the party characters are expected to be competent and have internal resources to survive routine challenges and heroic play in a game where the ability of the characters to survive challenges requires careful planning (skilled play) and resource management (as well as vice versa). I would agree that these things exist on a spectrum, more a board Venn diagram type sets with a lot of intersecting overlap. I am not at all convinced that 2.x had a position on the heroic/pragmatic axis but was built to support playstyles where the characters were protagonists in their own story (heroic or otherwise) but still supported a more setting/environment challenge style of play but 4e was more explicitly protoganstic (everyone as a movie action hero - perhaps somewhat of an exaggeration but I hope you get my meaning). 5e has rolled back to a more middle ground but provides more support for the character self-sufficiency (hence the frequent complaints about it being "EASY MODE") Or of course, I could be completely mistaking your position and we are talking at cross purposes here. [/QUOTE]

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