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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 8833037" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>I disagree. Increasing lethality in the game is effortless. Throw a dozen Tarrasques at a first level party. Game over, irrespective of edition.</p><p></p><p>What's difficult, and what earlier editions did very poorly, was helping DMs who didn't necessarily want to constantly wreck their party. High character turnover can ruin any sense of campaign continuity.</p><p></p><p>IMO, things like level drain and item destruction weren't challenging. They were punitive. They were basically mechanics where you worked your way into the major leagues, but now you get busted back down to the minor leagues because the other team scored a few points against you (in a game that expects teams to frequently score against each other). And it isn't even necessarily that the entire team was busted down. It might just be one especially unlucky player.</p><p></p><p>Yes, most players didn't like them, for this reason. I've known plenty of players who'd rather have their character die (with no chance of resurrection) than suffer level drain. Death usually feels more fair.</p><p></p><p>I also disagree that players won't be on board for a harder game. I've played in plenty of games that were significantly harder than the baseline established by that edition. As long as the DM established this at the start of the game, it wasn't an issue. Challenging games can be a lot of fun.</p><p></p><p>Too easy can be an issue, but increasing difficulty isn't that hard, provided your players are on board. If not, that may indicate mismatched expectations, such as them seeking a more narrative style game (in which case they probably won't get bored of the lack of challenge because they aren't seeking a challenge from the game to begin with).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 8833037, member: 53980"] I disagree. Increasing lethality in the game is effortless. Throw a dozen Tarrasques at a first level party. Game over, irrespective of edition. What's difficult, and what earlier editions did very poorly, was helping DMs who didn't necessarily want to constantly wreck their party. High character turnover can ruin any sense of campaign continuity. IMO, things like level drain and item destruction weren't challenging. They were punitive. They were basically mechanics where you worked your way into the major leagues, but now you get busted back down to the minor leagues because the other team scored a few points against you (in a game that expects teams to frequently score against each other). And it isn't even necessarily that the entire team was busted down. It might just be one especially unlucky player. Yes, most players didn't like them, for this reason. I've known plenty of players who'd rather have their character die (with no chance of resurrection) than suffer level drain. Death usually feels more fair. I also disagree that players won't be on board for a harder game. I've played in plenty of games that were significantly harder than the baseline established by that edition. As long as the DM established this at the start of the game, it wasn't an issue. Challenging games can be a lot of fun. Too easy can be an issue, but increasing difficulty isn't that hard, provided your players are on board. If not, that may indicate mismatched expectations, such as them seeking a more narrative style game (in which case they probably won't get bored of the lack of challenge because they aren't seeking a challenge from the game to begin with). [/QUOTE]
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