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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 8834136" data-attributes="member: 53980">If I were to add them in right now, they'd hate it. Most of us didn't use things like level drain back when they were in the rules. Which is why I would never do that to them, even if I personally liked level drain. In my group, we're perfectly adept at challenging the table, including high lethality, without using level drain (et al). However, if for whatever reason they were waxing nostolgic and talking about the "good old days of level drain, when things were actually a challenge", they'd laud me for bringing it back. I mean, we've literally had post-game discussions where the players offered feedback like, "the fights are getting a little too easy, can you up the challenge?" And shockingly, the players didn't complain (except in jest) when the challenge was increased, despite that characters were much more likely to die as a result.RPGs are a group activity. I'm literally scratching my head at how you imply your players behave. You kind of portray them as a bunch of children who only ever want to win even though that would ruin the game for them, and you the stern parent who forces unpopular challenges on them for their own good. IDK, maybe I've gotten the wrong impression? It just seems like an unhealthy dynamic, if I am in the right ballpark.Yes, it's worth bothering. The d20 is a fairly swingy randomizer in most circumstances. Having played plenty of 4e, despite it being the least swingy there was indeed significant unpredictability. Encounters could most definitely go against the players. Failure was on the table.As I've said before, in the case of a new DM it's better to have the system default to easier encounters. That way they don't have to worry about accidentally slaughtering the party while learning the game, and can focus on having the most fun possible. Having run for a lot of new players in the past few years, I assure you that newbies do indeed find the default encounter guidelines challenging. It's those of us who've been playing for many years who find it a little under tuned out of the box. Fortunately, we have the experience to season to taste.Eleven "bad things" over seven adventures. Six of which were deaths, so that's 5 "perma bad" things over seven adventures. I presume the level drains and limb loss each took place during their same adventures, so that's 3 instances of "perma bad" challenges over seven adventures.Therefore, clearly you don't NEED these mechanics to challenge your players, if these only featured in something like three out of seven adventures. You might like the variety that they bring to the table, but either more than 50% of your adventures are without challenge or you're able to challenge the party just fine without level drain (et al).Again, I'm not arguing that there's anything wrong with using those mechanics if your group is on board. I'm simply refuting the concept that a group cannot be challenged without resorting to them.</blockquote>

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