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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 6818410" data-attributes="member: 6788736">Because that IS the case. The classes are not balanced against each other for a single encounter adventuring day.The classes ARE balanced against each other at the 6-8 encounter/ 2 short rest AD.Look at a Paladin 6 vs a BM Fighter 6. In a single encounter AD:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin lay on hands = 30 points of healing. Fighter gets 1d10+6 (11.5 on average) with second wind [advantage paladin].</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Assuming no spells cast, the Paladin spams +8-10d8 damage worth of smites. The BM gets +4d8 damage [advantage paladin]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Both have a fighting style. Both have extra attack. Both have a feat/ ASI [even]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The fighter has Action surge. The Paladin has his oath abilities with divine channel [even].</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Paladin has spells. The BM has the utility of superiority dice [even]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Paladin has an aura. The BM has a bonus feat/ ASI [even]</li> </ul>Look at the above numbers. In a single encounter adventuring day (or an adventuring day featuring a small number of encounters with no short rest) the Paladin comes out clearly on top. Now lets increase to a 6-8 encounter/ 2 short rest AD:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin has lay on hands for 30 points of healing. Fighter gets 3d10+18 (34.5 on average) with second wind [even].</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Assuming no spells cast, the Paladin spams +8-10d8 damage worth of smites. The BM gets +12d8 [even]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Both have a fighting style. Both have extra attack. Both have a feat/ ASI [even]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The fighter has Action surge x 3. The Paladin has his oath abilities with divine channel x 3 [even].</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Paladin has spells. The BM has the utility of superiority dice [even]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Paladin has an aura. The BM has a bonus feat/ ASI [even]</li> </ul>The classes balance at this point.Now look at a Wizard 8 vs a Warlock 8. In a single encounter AD, the wizard gets the ability to blat [2 x 4th level spells, 3 x 3rd level spells, 3 x 2nd level spells and 4 x 1st level spells]. He still has arcane recovery and cantrips up his sleeve. The Warlock gets 2 x 4th level spells and invocations. CLEAR advantage to the Wizard - and thats before you factor in teh fact the wizard has a greater range of spells known and is far more lijkely to have 'the right spell for the job' at hand.In a 6-8/ 2 short rest AD, the Wizard still has the same number of slots = +1 extra 4th for a total of 3 due to arcane recovery. The warlock now has triple the number of slots (or 6 x 4th level slots); enough to spam one per encounter. The Warlock has 6 x 4th level slots to the Wizards 3 x 4ths, 3 x 3rds, 3 x 2nds and 4 x 1sts. The classes balance at this point.Because the classes balance at the 6-8 encounter/ 2 short rest sweet spot. If youre throwing less encounters at the party (and allowing less short rests per long rest) then you're favoring long rest dependent classes (full casters, barbarians and paladins) and nerfing short rest dependent classes (warlock, fighter and monk).What? Dude your experiences differe greatly from mine. Barbarians are crazy good in 5E.Dude, the problems get worse with casters at high level if you allow the 5 minute AD. This is accepted wisdom.Rubbish. Give me an optimised party of 5 PCs of (lets go with 7th level). Ill design 6-8 medium to hard encounters for them to encounter, complete with a story attached and we can run them through it if youre game.Youre using nova tactic arguments as a reason to build encounters that encourage nova tactics.You get this right? You dont stop nova tactics by increasing difficulty and having single encounter AD's. This just encourages nova tactics.You instead force longer AD's on the party. Youre using player nova tactics as your argument for how players at your table are capable of (in your words) 'steamrolling' the expected encounter difficulty. In the same breath you admit to only throwing 1-2 'deadly' encounters at them.Youre creating encoutners that your players have to nova. Youre encouraging nova tactics mate. Dial back the difficulty and increase the number of encounters.No mate, my 'maths' is just fine. Look - show me this [5 x 7th level] 'optimised' party and ill show you a [6-8 medium - hard encounter on average/ 2 short rest] AD that will challenge the <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> out of them.Im deadly serious. Give me an optimised party of whatever level you want and I'll show you a quick adventure of 6-8 medium-hard encounters with 2 short rests. You can then explain to me how these encounters get 'steamrolled'.</blockquote>

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