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"Combat exhaustion" at 0 hp?
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<blockquote data-quote="toucanbuzz" data-source="post: 8205401" data-attributes="member: 19270"><p><em>I know the topic of replacing Death Saves has been covered, but I wanted to take a version I've seen on other threads and weave it into my own (vitality at 0hp). Not looking for debate on whether one should use an alternative to Death Saves, but any abuses or loopholes you could see occurring. My players currently like the idea of being relevant, albeit reduced in ability and hovering at death's door, at 0hp.</em></p><p></p><p>Several DMs use some version of a homebrew rule, in lieu of Death Saves at 0 hit points, of: <strong>gain 1 level of exhaustion. </strong>The purpose is largely to avoid "whack-a-mole." The rule has been criticized as easily leading to a death spiral, especially for front-line characters, though it is a simplistic rule to implement. What if the <em>exhaustion </em>gained this way were easier to shed? <em>Much credit to folks <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/house-rule-idea-conscious-but-exhausted-at-0-hp.676840/" target="_blank">in this thread</a> and [USER=6987520]@6ENow![/USER] </em></p><p></p><p><strong><u><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">Proposed System:</span></u></strong></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><strong>At 0 hit points, PC gains 1 level of "combat exhaustion" and any concentration effects end. </strong>Combat exhaustion is the same as normal exhaustion and stacks with it, but is easier to remove by:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1 per short rest or <em>lesser restoration</em></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All by a long rest, <em>greater restoration, </em>or <em>potion of vitality.</em></li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><strong>The PC makes a Concentration saving throw to gain the "staggered" condition and stay conscious</strong>. <strong>Failure means the character gains the "unconscious" condition. </strong>Once a player gains at least 1 hit point, they lose these conditions. A player can voluntarily "fail" the save (perhaps to avoid looking like a threat on the battlefield).<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the save is failed by 5 or more, the PC gains a "lingering injury" per the DMG p272.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><strong>A "staggered" PC loses reactions, cannot move unless they use the Dash action, and can only take a single Action or Bonus action on their turn. Each time the PC takes damage while staggered, they must make another Concentration saving throw as above.</strong><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Option A:</strong> any subsequent damage to a staggered or unconscious PC is taken from their Vitality points. At 0 Vitality, the PC is dead, unless the enemy opts to knock them out with an otherwise fatal melee attack, leaving the PC with 1 vitality and the unconscious condition.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Vitality = starting HP, only changing if the CON modifier changes. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Vitality heals at the rate of 1 per Long Rest. It can be magically healed if the character is already at full hit points, and then at the rate of 1 for every 10 points of healing. <em>Regeneration is the exception, always heals at least 1 per tic.</em></li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>OR, thinking Option B: </strong>any subsequent hits imposes 1 combat exhaustion; a critical hit imposes 2. The enemy can opt to knock them out with an otherwise fatal melee attack (one that would give them 6 exhaustion levels), leaving the PC with 5 levels of normal exhaustion (all combat exhaustion is now converted to normal exhaustion).</li> </ul></li> </ol><p><em>Option A is our current system and can make for more brutal games akin to 3rd edition and AD&D. One direct hit by a giant's club can, and should end you, whether you're 1st or 20th level. But, you might survive a swipe of a sword. The 20th level character has gotten better at avoiding these types of fatal hits, which is why they have more "hit points." Getting Vitality back can take much time, reflecting the reality of taking "real damage."</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Option B is slightly more forgiving because no matter what the damage is, whether it be a 1 point needle prick from a faerie or a 50 point dragon claw, you effectively "avoid" the fatal blow and instead creep closer through the Exhaustion mechanic and become much more useless in combat. However, I got away from Death Saves for this exact reason that at 0 hp, damage becomes absurdly irrelevant. A 200 damage "hit" is treated just the same as a 1 damage "hit" and that doesn't feel right (for me...stress, for me and my games).</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="toucanbuzz, post: 8205401, member: 19270"] [I]I know the topic of replacing Death Saves has been covered, but I wanted to take a version I've seen on other threads and weave it into my own (vitality at 0hp). Not looking for debate on whether one should use an alternative to Death Saves, but any abuses or loopholes you could see occurring. My players currently like the idea of being relevant, albeit reduced in ability and hovering at death's door, at 0hp.[/I] Several DMs use some version of a homebrew rule, in lieu of Death Saves at 0 hit points, of: [B]gain 1 level of exhaustion. [/B]The purpose is largely to avoid "whack-a-mole." The rule has been criticized as easily leading to a death spiral, especially for front-line characters, though it is a simplistic rule to implement. What if the [I]exhaustion [/I]gained this way were easier to shed? [I]Much credit to folks [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/house-rule-idea-conscious-but-exhausted-at-0-hp.676840/']in this thread[/URL] and [USER=6987520]@6ENow![/USER] [/I] [B][U][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Proposed System:[/COLOR][/U][/B] [LIST=1] [*][B]At 0 hit points, PC gains 1 level of "combat exhaustion" and any concentration effects end. [/B]Combat exhaustion is the same as normal exhaustion and stacks with it, but is easier to remove by: [LIST] [*]1 per short rest or [I]lesser restoration[/I] [*]All by a long rest, [I]greater restoration, [/I]or [I]potion of vitality.[/I] [/LIST] [*][B]The PC makes a Concentration saving throw to gain the "staggered" condition and stay conscious[/B]. [B]Failure means the character gains the "unconscious" condition. [/B]Once a player gains at least 1 hit point, they lose these conditions.[B] [/B]A player can voluntarily "fail" the save (perhaps to avoid looking like a threat on the battlefield). [LIST] [*]If the save is failed by 5 or more, the PC gains a "lingering injury" per the DMG p272. [/LIST] [*][B]A "staggered" PC loses reactions, cannot move unless they use the Dash action, and can only take a single Action or Bonus action on their turn. Each time the PC takes damage while staggered, they must make another Concentration saving throw as above.[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Option A:[/B] any subsequent damage to a staggered or unconscious PC is taken from their Vitality points. At 0 Vitality, the PC is dead, unless the enemy opts to knock them out with an otherwise fatal melee attack, leaving the PC with 1 vitality and the unconscious condition. [LIST] [*]Vitality = starting HP, only changing if the CON modifier changes. [*]Vitality heals at the rate of 1 per Long Rest. It can be magically healed if the character is already at full hit points, and then at the rate of 1 for every 10 points of healing. [I]Regeneration is the exception, always heals at least 1 per tic.[/I] [/LIST] [*][B]OR, thinking Option B: [/B]any subsequent hits imposes 1 combat exhaustion; a critical hit imposes 2. The enemy can opt to knock them out with an otherwise fatal melee attack (one that would give them 6 exhaustion levels), leaving the PC with 5 levels of normal exhaustion (all combat exhaustion is now converted to normal exhaustion). [/LIST] [/LIST] [I]Option A is our current system and can make for more brutal games akin to 3rd edition and AD&D. One direct hit by a giant's club can, and should end you, whether you're 1st or 20th level. But, you might survive a swipe of a sword. The 20th level character has gotten better at avoiding these types of fatal hits, which is why they have more "hit points." Getting Vitality back can take much time, reflecting the reality of taking "real damage." Option B is slightly more forgiving because no matter what the damage is, whether it be a 1 point needle prick from a faerie or a 50 point dragon claw, you effectively "avoid" the fatal blow and instead creep closer through the Exhaustion mechanic and become much more useless in combat. However, I got away from Death Saves for this exact reason that at 0 hp, damage becomes absurdly irrelevant. A 200 damage "hit" is treated just the same as a 1 damage "hit" and that doesn't feel right (for me...stress, for me and my games).[/I] [/QUOTE]
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"Combat exhaustion" at 0 hp?
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