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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Combat length and Adventure pacing
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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 5117781" data-attributes="member: 59057"><p>The major problem in 4e is the Idea that powers are a limited resource which players chose at character creation, not as a reaction to a present situation. Even items are chosen to support the build, not to overcome a situation.</p><p></p><p>You can adapt to the situation by timing your powers right, but usually you still use only your powers. In older editions, because your powers were rare, or you had none (fighter or thief) you had to use the terrain to get advantage, use your fellow PC´s as shields, used burning oil to bring down an enemy... often circumventing hp and ending the combat immediately by just one clever idea. Sometimes t involved a clever use of a power... e.g.: command: "jump" to someone walking on the ceiling with boots of spider climbing...</p><p></p><p>3.5 already changed "open ended" spells which were revarding cleverness such as he command spell by stating the exact uses. This was done, because a 1st level spell may not be that lethal when used in the right situation, which is a legit reason when there is no way to prevent someone to use such a spell even if you are faster. (no spell interruption and usually impossible to kill the mage in a single blow)</p><p></p><p>Why is it important for adventure pacing and combat length: When you are really immersed in the combat or know you can end it by roleplaying, there is no break at all. </p><p></p><p>Combat is just another form of roleplaying. But it is unbalanced and needs a good DM to react to the ideas of the players. He has to decide if it is a clever or stupid idea. He has to make up the effect by the players describing the power. In 4e you know the effect beforehand and so combat can easily become just a mechanical resoulution and it has nothing to do with roleplaying anymore.</p><p></p><p>The sad thing: 4e has all the tools needed for this kind of playstyle, but the feat and power system overshadows the solid game system so that players and the DM sometimes forget that they play an RPG.</p><p></p><p>Combat would be much faster paced and much nicer if the players decide their actions according to what makes sense in a situation for his PC, not what is best from a mechanical viewpoint. The DM on the contrary has tp make sure his monsters do the same.</p><p></p><p>With this playstyle in mind the time spent thinking about level appropriate challenges and level appropriate items can be better spent searching for story related monsters and items to make the story immersing and the combat a memorable encounter. And it will be faster paced, because mistakes are allowed!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 5117781, member: 59057"] The major problem in 4e is the Idea that powers are a limited resource which players chose at character creation, not as a reaction to a present situation. Even items are chosen to support the build, not to overcome a situation. You can adapt to the situation by timing your powers right, but usually you still use only your powers. In older editions, because your powers were rare, or you had none (fighter or thief) you had to use the terrain to get advantage, use your fellow PC´s as shields, used burning oil to bring down an enemy... often circumventing hp and ending the combat immediately by just one clever idea. Sometimes t involved a clever use of a power... e.g.: command: "jump" to someone walking on the ceiling with boots of spider climbing... 3.5 already changed "open ended" spells which were revarding cleverness such as he command spell by stating the exact uses. This was done, because a 1st level spell may not be that lethal when used in the right situation, which is a legit reason when there is no way to prevent someone to use such a spell even if you are faster. (no spell interruption and usually impossible to kill the mage in a single blow) Why is it important for adventure pacing and combat length: When you are really immersed in the combat or know you can end it by roleplaying, there is no break at all. Combat is just another form of roleplaying. But it is unbalanced and needs a good DM to react to the ideas of the players. He has to decide if it is a clever or stupid idea. He has to make up the effect by the players describing the power. In 4e you know the effect beforehand and so combat can easily become just a mechanical resoulution and it has nothing to do with roleplaying anymore. The sad thing: 4e has all the tools needed for this kind of playstyle, but the feat and power system overshadows the solid game system so that players and the DM sometimes forget that they play an RPG. Combat would be much faster paced and much nicer if the players decide their actions according to what makes sense in a situation for his PC, not what is best from a mechanical viewpoint. The DM on the contrary has tp make sure his monsters do the same. With this playstyle in mind the time spent thinking about level appropriate challenges and level appropriate items can be better spent searching for story related monsters and items to make the story immersing and the combat a memorable encounter. And it will be faster paced, because mistakes are allowed! [/QUOTE]
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