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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
[Combat] Manoeuvres
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<blockquote data-quote="Chris_Nightwing" data-source="post: 5956774" data-attributes="member: 882"><p>With the most recent blog post about narrative combat and various discussions on how to make melee and Fighters more interesting, I thought I would lay down a proposed manoeuvre system.</p><p></p><p>You use your action to perform a manoeuvre, and therefore cannot also attack unless otherwise noted. I have tried to keep things simple, avoiding fiddly bonuses, and commented on the use of some manoeuvres.</p><p></p><p><strong>Charge</strong></p><p>You may move up to your full speed in a straight line and make an attack. You grant advantage for all attacks against you until the start of your next turn.</p><p><em>A beserker theme might increase damage on a charge, provide extra movement or allow the use of another manoeuvre instead of an attack after charging.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Knockdown</strong></p><p>You knock an opponent prone if you succeed an opposed Strength check against them. Given the ease with which one gets back up, this would be to help the party Rogue get a sneak attack in, grant yourself advantage if you have an attack from a surge, or to allow you to flee (if OAs exist in some form).</p><p><em>This probably shouldn't work on creatures larger than you (rather than fiddling with numbers) and having four legs could grant advantage on the Strength check.</em></p><p><em>An offensive sword and board theme might allow you to attempt this after a normal attack, could make it harder for opponents to get back up or could add your shield bonus to your Strength check.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Trip</strong></p><p>You knock an opponent prone if you succeed an opposed Dexterity check against them. As above, including the size/legs proviso.</p><p><em>Crazy polearm/spiked chain theme could do much the same as the offensive S&B theme.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Disarm</strong></p><p>You knock an opponent's weapon to the ground if you succeed on an opposed attack roll against them. Does not work on larger creatures or natural weapons, defensive advantage for a 2-handed weapon (though not offensive advantage, that seems too powerful).</p><p><em>A two-weapon fighting or duelist theme might allow you to attack after a successful disarm, might knock the weapon further from the feet of your opponent or remove the advantage of 2-handed weapons.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Sunder</strong></p><p>You damage an opponent's weapon on an opposed attack roll, reducing it's damage di(c)e by 1 step OR you damage an opponent's armour on a successful attack with disadvantage against their AC, reducing their AC by 1. <em>Not sure if it should work on larger creatures or not.</em></p><p><em>No theme should let you do this as well as attack (I don't think - it's quite powerful), but could certainly make it easier or more effective. Generally a difficult manoeuvre to construct.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Push</strong></p><p>If you succeed on an opposed Strength check against your opponent, push them by a number of feet equal to 1 + the amount you succeeded by. Does not work on larger creatures, and four legs grants advantage on the check.</p><p><em>The S&B theme could allow this with an attack (Tide of Iron!), perhaps combine Push with Knockdown or increase the amount you push by your shield bonus.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Feint</strong></p><p>If you succeed on an opposed Wisdom (Intelligence? Charisma?) check, you trick your opponent into leaving themselves exposed and you gain advantage on your next attack against them. Does not work on mindless creatures.</p><p><em>Tricky to decide which ability to use, but Wisdom is my best guess from recent discussions about Rogues..</em></p><p><em>A free-hand, duelist type theme could allow the advantaged attack immediately or perhaps open up the advantage to the next attack to anyone.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Grab</strong></p><p>If you succeed on an opposed (Str|Dex) vs. (Str|Dex) check, you grab and immobilise your opponent. Does not work on larger creatures. They can attempt to escape by the same means as an action.</p><p><em>However this works, let's make grappling as easy as possible to understand mechanically. No pinning, no damage dealing, you just hold them in place.</em></p><p><em>Themes of course, could introduce damage dealing to grabbed opponents.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Dodge</strong></p><p>I don't like the flat +4 to AC bonus provided at current. I suggest instead that you be allowed to select one opponent and attacks made by them against you have disadvantage (or perhaps just one attack of your choice) until your next turn. Could be enhanced by a theme.</p><p></p><p><strong>Parry</strong></p><p>Probably not a base manoeuvre, but it would allow you to apply disadvantage to one attack against you as a reaction. Accessible through a duelist theme.</p><p></p><p>So there are some ideas - manoeuvres that I think should mostly be accessible by all, but enhanced by themes. Improvisation is fantastic, but these should be outlined in the PHB/DMG to make it clear what sort of effects are acceptable in exchange for an attack.</p><p></p><p>I also want to say that I thoroughly dislike the 'called shot' theory (penalty to attack, gain some effect) - balance is tricky and involves fiddly numbers. A penalty to damage (or rather, convert damage to effect after the fact) may function better. I'd rather see them embrace ability scores again though, and avoid digits like the plague!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chris_Nightwing, post: 5956774, member: 882"] With the most recent blog post about narrative combat and various discussions on how to make melee and Fighters more interesting, I thought I would lay down a proposed manoeuvre system. You use your action to perform a manoeuvre, and therefore cannot also attack unless otherwise noted. I have tried to keep things simple, avoiding fiddly bonuses, and commented on the use of some manoeuvres. [B]Charge[/B] You may move up to your full speed in a straight line and make an attack. You grant advantage for all attacks against you until the start of your next turn. [I]A beserker theme might increase damage on a charge, provide extra movement or allow the use of another manoeuvre instead of an attack after charging.[/I] [B]Knockdown[/B] You knock an opponent prone if you succeed an opposed Strength check against them. Given the ease with which one gets back up, this would be to help the party Rogue get a sneak attack in, grant yourself advantage if you have an attack from a surge, or to allow you to flee (if OAs exist in some form). [I]This probably shouldn't work on creatures larger than you (rather than fiddling with numbers) and having four legs could grant advantage on the Strength check. An offensive sword and board theme might allow you to attempt this after a normal attack, could make it harder for opponents to get back up or could add your shield bonus to your Strength check.[/I] [B]Trip[/B] You knock an opponent prone if you succeed an opposed Dexterity check against them. As above, including the size/legs proviso. [I]Crazy polearm/spiked chain theme could do much the same as the offensive S&B theme.[/I] [B]Disarm[/B] You knock an opponent's weapon to the ground if you succeed on an opposed attack roll against them. Does not work on larger creatures or natural weapons, defensive advantage for a 2-handed weapon (though not offensive advantage, that seems too powerful). [I]A two-weapon fighting or duelist theme might allow you to attack after a successful disarm, might knock the weapon further from the feet of your opponent or remove the advantage of 2-handed weapons.[/I] [B]Sunder[/B] You damage an opponent's weapon on an opposed attack roll, reducing it's damage di(c)e by 1 step OR you damage an opponent's armour on a successful attack with disadvantage against their AC, reducing their AC by 1. [I]Not sure if it should work on larger creatures or not. No theme should let you do this as well as attack (I don't think - it's quite powerful), but could certainly make it easier or more effective. Generally a difficult manoeuvre to construct.[/I] [B]Push[/B] If you succeed on an opposed Strength check against your opponent, push them by a number of feet equal to 1 + the amount you succeeded by. Does not work on larger creatures, and four legs grants advantage on the check. [I]The S&B theme could allow this with an attack (Tide of Iron!), perhaps combine Push with Knockdown or increase the amount you push by your shield bonus.[/I] [B]Feint[/B] If you succeed on an opposed Wisdom (Intelligence? Charisma?) check, you trick your opponent into leaving themselves exposed and you gain advantage on your next attack against them. Does not work on mindless creatures. [I]Tricky to decide which ability to use, but Wisdom is my best guess from recent discussions about Rogues.. A free-hand, duelist type theme could allow the advantaged attack immediately or perhaps open up the advantage to the next attack to anyone.[/I] [B]Grab[/B] If you succeed on an opposed (Str|Dex) vs. (Str|Dex) check, you grab and immobilise your opponent. Does not work on larger creatures. They can attempt to escape by the same means as an action. [I]However this works, let's make grappling as easy as possible to understand mechanically. No pinning, no damage dealing, you just hold them in place. Themes of course, could introduce damage dealing to grabbed opponents.[/I] [B]Dodge[/B] I don't like the flat +4 to AC bonus provided at current. I suggest instead that you be allowed to select one opponent and attacks made by them against you have disadvantage (or perhaps just one attack of your choice) until your next turn. Could be enhanced by a theme. [B]Parry[/B] Probably not a base manoeuvre, but it would allow you to apply disadvantage to one attack against you as a reaction. Accessible through a duelist theme. So there are some ideas - manoeuvres that I think should mostly be accessible by all, but enhanced by themes. Improvisation is fantastic, but these should be outlined in the PHB/DMG to make it clear what sort of effects are acceptable in exchange for an attack. I also want to say that I thoroughly dislike the 'called shot' theory (penalty to attack, gain some effect) - balance is tricky and involves fiddly numbers. A penalty to damage (or rather, convert damage to effect after the fact) may function better. I'd rather see them embrace ability scores again though, and avoid digits like the plague! [/QUOTE]
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