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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 4487173" data-attributes="member: 177">Past editions didn't have terribly complex or nuanced rules for position and move-based effects.  It just didn't matter exactly where you were standing each and every moment.  So, you could use the minis, but it was easy enough to abstract them away into narrative.  For many of us, the amount of pain resulting from imprecise narrative was outweighed the pain caused by having to set up maps and minis, so we often skipped the minis.4e makes that rather more difficult - many character powers are highly dependent on the details, making it harder to abstract this away into narrative and still remain fair to the players.  I expect that generally abstracting would cause more pain than using the minis in the 4e rules.Your phrasing above is a little ambiguous, so I think I'll add: Minis are a tool, a means to an end.  The game does not need to support minis, though perhaps minis can be used to support the game.</blockquote>