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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Combat Superiority and Damage/HP bloat
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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6001173" data-attributes="member: 14506"><p>My comment is only to point out that I would like to see a smaller ramp up in HP and damage. I'm not trying to say that damage or HP should be hyperbolic and I also don't want completely flat. I want *some* extra damage/HP. So I think our ideas are compatible on that. </p><p></p><p>I feel like anything in the game that has to do with sword fighting or melee or ranged fighting in general has to also take into account the monsters. Does everyone agree that combat superiority should also be included for all monsters? That is unlikely. However I think most people would agree that monsters should get some form of feats if the system dictated that. </p><p></p><p>So if combat superiority was a broad-based system that monsters and all melee and range based fighting characters would have, would that feel right? I personally do not think it does. you could draw parallels though all spell casters have spells. I still feel that is not how it should be. What happened to the concept of having a low entry point class. I mean couldn't you tie sneak attack damage dice into the rogue's CS dice? from a design standpoint that makes a lot of sense. Ranger's CS dice could be for favored enemies or only for their quarry. Barbarian CS dice could be for rage. Monk CS dice could be for multiple attacks. So CS dice could be tied not to just one class. It feels like the whole system could benefit from CS dice in this case. All heavy combat monsters could also benefit from CS dice. </p><p></p><p>To carry this further, I would rather see a system where fighters could utilize feats better than other classes. What about giving everyone combat points, the fighter gets a bunch and the monk gets a bunch, monsters get em too. What if these could be used to power combat feats. I feel like this would be a much broader base than a single class feature. Suppose they get one combat point at first level and add a second and a third point and so on every few levels thereafter. They could take feats and get special benefits from those feats by expending one or more of these combat points. All characters select feats and this is how you power them. All characters and monsters would have combat points. The fighter would have lots of these points and be able to select more combat feats. This would be a better way to implement a system like this rather than to pigeonhole it into one class. Call them hero points or what ever.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree it needs to be a part of D&D it needs to scale. The only question I have is how much scaling do we all want? What if we were to consider this on a track what would the effects be of having the low scaling HP and damage on one end and the high HP damage on the other end. The benefits of the low-end would be you could have a more variable level of monsters be able to fight the PCs without a lot of potential casualties or slugfests. The high-end would be characters would need to fight tighter level appropriate monster because if the level was a little bit higher they would have tons of more points and require a slugfest and if they were lower level then PC damage would outstrip those monsters too quickly. So again, in my mind I like flatter hit points and damage. Their is another a axis to this too, the to hit and miss ratio at different levels. With the game as it is currently set up, it appears that the hit and miss ratio will be a lot tighter so it is not auto hit at high-level and high degree of miss at low level. So the consideration is mostly on hit points and damage. </p><p></p><p>Please feel free to add your thoughts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6001173, member: 14506"] My comment is only to point out that I would like to see a smaller ramp up in HP and damage. I'm not trying to say that damage or HP should be hyperbolic and I also don't want completely flat. I want *some* extra damage/HP. So I think our ideas are compatible on that. I feel like anything in the game that has to do with sword fighting or melee or ranged fighting in general has to also take into account the monsters. Does everyone agree that combat superiority should also be included for all monsters? That is unlikely. However I think most people would agree that monsters should get some form of feats if the system dictated that. So if combat superiority was a broad-based system that monsters and all melee and range based fighting characters would have, would that feel right? I personally do not think it does. you could draw parallels though all spell casters have spells. I still feel that is not how it should be. What happened to the concept of having a low entry point class. I mean couldn't you tie sneak attack damage dice into the rogue's CS dice? from a design standpoint that makes a lot of sense. Ranger's CS dice could be for favored enemies or only for their quarry. Barbarian CS dice could be for rage. Monk CS dice could be for multiple attacks. So CS dice could be tied not to just one class. It feels like the whole system could benefit from CS dice in this case. All heavy combat monsters could also benefit from CS dice. To carry this further, I would rather see a system where fighters could utilize feats better than other classes. What about giving everyone combat points, the fighter gets a bunch and the monk gets a bunch, monsters get em too. What if these could be used to power combat feats. I feel like this would be a much broader base than a single class feature. Suppose they get one combat point at first level and add a second and a third point and so on every few levels thereafter. They could take feats and get special benefits from those feats by expending one or more of these combat points. All characters select feats and this is how you power them. All characters and monsters would have combat points. The fighter would have lots of these points and be able to select more combat feats. This would be a better way to implement a system like this rather than to pigeonhole it into one class. Call them hero points or what ever. I agree it needs to be a part of D&D it needs to scale. The only question I have is how much scaling do we all want? What if we were to consider this on a track what would the effects be of having the low scaling HP and damage on one end and the high HP damage on the other end. The benefits of the low-end would be you could have a more variable level of monsters be able to fight the PCs without a lot of potential casualties or slugfests. The high-end would be characters would need to fight tighter level appropriate monster because if the level was a little bit higher they would have tons of more points and require a slugfest and if they were lower level then PC damage would outstrip those monsters too quickly. So again, in my mind I like flatter hit points and damage. Their is another a axis to this too, the to hit and miss ratio at different levels. With the game as it is currently set up, it appears that the hit and miss ratio will be a lot tighter so it is not auto hit at high-level and high degree of miss at low level. So the consideration is mostly on hit points and damage. Please feel free to add your thoughts. [/QUOTE]
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