Combat w/ Flyers

[bardolph]

Let's say a 3rd level party is fighting a Young White Dragon, who has Flight 6 (hover) and a reach of 2.

How do you run this battle?

-Does the DM have to track the dragon's altitude every turn?
-Can a hovering dragon share the same space as an enemy PC?
-What altitude does the dragon need to be at in order to strike a melee defender from "2 squares away" using its reach?
-Can characters who are adjacent to the the dragon (according to the battle grid) but still on the ground attack the dragon with melee attacks?

 

[Craith]

-Does the DM have to track the dragon's altitude every turn?

Yes, but the dragon will either be
* in range for its Breath Weapon
* 10' (2squares) for melee attacks
* far, far up in the sky (if the battle doesn't work as planned for the dragon)

-Can a hovering dragon share the same space as an enemy PC?

No, but it can hover 1 square above the PC (which might look like sharing the space on the battlemap)

-What altitude does the dragon need to be at in order to strike a melee defender from "2 squares away" using its reach?

2 squares aka 10'

-Can characters who are adjacent to the the dragon (according to the battle grid) but still on the ground attack the dragon with melee attacks?

Only if they can reach it's square (reach weapons). They could also (IMO) ready actions to attack the dragons limbs when he strikes them. They can also jump and attack him (if they clear 5' height - quick and easy rule, or if they reach 10' height including their vertical reach)

They might also try a stunt (climbing a tree and jumping down, hurling another PC in the air, fighting on the shoulders of the largest PC ...), knock the dragon prone (I don't want to be below him when he falls!).

there are also a fighter encounter power that requires him to come adjacent - and he might not get away from the sticky fighter anymore.

Alternatively you can still switch to your trusted throwing axe - you got yourself a nice, heavy thrown backup weapon, didn't you (or your PCs?)

If all fails - seek cover, spread and run in different directions (so he will only get one), or be faster than the fighter, cleric, warlord or dwarf.

 

[NMcCoy]

The DMG has advice for running a 3D combat, IIRC. The 4e distance rule makes determining range and altitude really easy, actually - the distance between two points is the greater of the altitude difference and the ground distance. Especially with a non-flying party, dealing with the dragon's altitude is as simple as putting an altitude die next to the mini and saying "determine range as normal, except the dragon's altitude is the minimum range possible." So if the dragon is flying 3 squares above ground level, it's range 3 away from the fighter standing in an adjacent square, and range 10 to the wizard standing 10 squares away.

 

[hamishspence]

non-euclidian

People made a lot of fuss about it on the flat, that diagonal distance was visibly further but treated as the same. If something is 10 squares away diagonally and 10 square up, the difference between game distance and "real" distance is even bigger: two opposite corners of a cube are even further apart than opposite corners of a square.

I can put up with it, but it might annoy other people even more than diagonals on a 2D board

 

[Thomson]

Since distances are non euclidian on the 2D board, they also should be on the 3d board.

A short, nice but sometimes pretty wrong way to estimate sqrt(sqr(a)+sqr(b)) is max(a,b)+min(a,b)/2.

 

[Particle_Man]

Can spells be aimed "high" to hit a flying dragon, or do they always "hug the ground"?

 

[Maximillian]

Can spells be aimed "high" to hit a flying dragon, or do they always "hug the ground"?

I've been wondering about this lately, too.

Is my fireball a firecube, or just a five foot high firesquare?

 

[bardolph]

-Does the DM have to track the dragon's altitude every turn?

Yes, but the dragon will either be
* in range for its Breath Weapon
* 10' (2squares) for melee attacks
* far, far up in the sky (if the battle doesn't work as planned for the dragon)

Makes sense. The assumption is that 2 squares away = ~15' in the air (the height of the characters, plus ~10'').

A dragon who wants "sticky" engagement can simply land, and is then considered adjacent.

Only if they can reach it's square (reach weapons). They could also (IMO) ready actions to attack the dragons limbs when he strikes them. They can also jump and attack him (if they clear 5' height - quick and easy rule, or if they reach 10' height including their vertical reach)

Good ruling.

They might also try a stunt (climbing a tree and jumping down, hurling another PC in the air, fighting on the shoulders of the largest PC ...), knock the dragon prone (I don't want to be below him when he falls!).

Heh, a good move might be "jump and grab." If this succeeds, the jumper (a) drags the flyer to the ground, or (b) moves with the flyer in the air (and can attack from there). I'd probably rule (b) for huge, non-clumsy flyers.