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Combining Bard Abilities with Items Effects
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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 4159113" data-attributes="member: 2525"><p>Fair enough. I don't think two actions is an unreasonable interpretation, though obviously I would prefer one <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While I appreciate the response, I disagree. </p><p></p><p>It does not say in the description that it replaces (or else I never would have had to ask about it). It says specifically "grant the target of that ability an <strong>extra</strong> 50 temporary hit points". <strong>Extra</strong> implies to me that it is adding to the base ability it is modifying, not replacing. </p><p></p><p>If the base ability said "The target of this Inspire Greatness ability gains 1 temporary hit point" and the magic item modifying it said "if you spend an additional standard action to manipulate this horn while you are using your Inspire Greatness ability, the target of that Inspire Greatness ability gets an extra +2 temporary hit point. As usual, temporary hit point do not stack with temporary hit points from other sources." I think nobody would be debating this item (it would be obvious it stacks with the base ability, just not other outside abilities and spells). But really, that is the same case we have here, it's just not +1 bonus modifying a +2 bonus.</p><p></p><p>The non-stacking part is concerning a different source. But in this case, it's not a different source, but the same base source (the extra temporary hit points cannot exist outside the base source of Inspire Greatness). In my opinion, the nonstackable part of the quote is applying to entirely different sources of temporary hit points like the the Aid spell or False Life spell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is about the same result however. Now you just wait until the initial temporary hit points are almost depleted, and then blow the horn to replace the almost depleted number with 50. That doesn't make sense to me, and doesn't seem to mesh well with the apparent intent of the item.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, that makes no sense to me. The second cannot exist without the first, since it only adds extra hit points to the first ability, and cannot be activated unless you first use Inspire Greatness. It is EXTRA hit points added to the first, by definition. The way your ruling it, you still get about the full benefit of both, you just have to wait until the first temporary hit points are depleted. Why would that make sense?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair enough, though it does say "ALL" benefits, so I do not see how any scenario that only modifies one benefit is possible.</p><p></p><p>To add a precedent, the Words of Creation feat from Book of Exalted Deeds modifies Inspire Greatness as well by doubling effects of your Bardic Music, and specifically gives the example of doubling the hit dice granted from 2 to 4.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>OK</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree. I just thought juggling musical instruments during combat might make for an interesting image. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It does. Thank you for responding. Even if I disagree with some of your interpretations, it will help my DM adjudicate things, and helps me focus better on the issues.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 4159113, member: 2525"] Fair enough. I don't think two actions is an unreasonable interpretation, though obviously I would prefer one :) While I appreciate the response, I disagree. It does not say in the description that it replaces (or else I never would have had to ask about it). It says specifically "grant the target of that ability an [b]extra[/b] 50 temporary hit points". [b]Extra[/b] implies to me that it is adding to the base ability it is modifying, not replacing. If the base ability said "The target of this Inspire Greatness ability gains 1 temporary hit point" and the magic item modifying it said "if you spend an additional standard action to manipulate this horn while you are using your Inspire Greatness ability, the target of that Inspire Greatness ability gets an extra +2 temporary hit point. As usual, temporary hit point do not stack with temporary hit points from other sources." I think nobody would be debating this item (it would be obvious it stacks with the base ability, just not other outside abilities and spells). But really, that is the same case we have here, it's just not +1 bonus modifying a +2 bonus. The non-stacking part is concerning a different source. But in this case, it's not a different source, but the same base source (the extra temporary hit points cannot exist outside the base source of Inspire Greatness). In my opinion, the nonstackable part of the quote is applying to entirely different sources of temporary hit points like the the Aid spell or False Life spell. That is about the same result however. Now you just wait until the initial temporary hit points are almost depleted, and then blow the horn to replace the almost depleted number with 50. That doesn't make sense to me, and doesn't seem to mesh well with the apparent intent of the item. Again, that makes no sense to me. The second cannot exist without the first, since it only adds extra hit points to the first ability, and cannot be activated unless you first use Inspire Greatness. It is EXTRA hit points added to the first, by definition. The way your ruling it, you still get about the full benefit of both, you just have to wait until the first temporary hit points are depleted. Why would that make sense? Fair enough, though it does say "ALL" benefits, so I do not see how any scenario that only modifies one benefit is possible. To add a precedent, the Words of Creation feat from Book of Exalted Deeds modifies Inspire Greatness as well by doubling effects of your Bardic Music, and specifically gives the example of doubling the hit dice granted from 2 to 4. OK I agree. I just thought juggling musical instruments during combat might make for an interesting image. It does. Thank you for responding. Even if I disagree with some of your interpretations, it will help my DM adjudicate things, and helps me focus better on the issues. [/QUOTE]
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