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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 4400832" data-attributes="member: 4722">And frost weapons require ice storm. That doesn't mean I can use one to cast an ice storm - it's just the closest spell they could find to achieve the desired effect. All planar travel goes through the Astral, and any time you see extradimensional spaces being destroyed and dumping their contents/occupants, it's into the Astral.You know, I think you're on to something there. Bag of holding defines a nondimensional space as &quot;Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions.&quot; At first I thought, &quot;So what's the difference?&quot; And then it hit me - an extradimensional space is effectively a small pocket plane - it's not a container, it's a place accessed by a portal or doorway. By that logic, a portable hole is indeed an extradimensional space, because it's not a true container - it's a flat piece of cloth you lay out on a surface and reach into to grab whatever you want, as opposed to the bag of holding and handy haversack, which are actual, portable, containers that hold far more than they should.Now, rope trick says, &quot;The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (&quot;planes&quot;).&quot; I would take that to mean &quot;a nondimensional space&quot;, which would also explain the warning at the end of the spell. But, by the above logic, this would be incorrect, since it's not a container. So effectively, spells create extradimensional spaces, items create nondimensional spaces, and nary the twain shall meet (IOW, it would be a bad idea to open one inside the other).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 4400832, member: 4722"] And frost weapons require ice storm. That doesn't mean I can use one to cast an ice storm - it's just the closest spell they could find to achieve the desired effect. All planar travel goes through the Astral, and any time you see extradimensional spaces being destroyed and dumping their contents/occupants, it's into the Astral. You know, I think you're on to something there. Bag of holding defines a nondimensional space as "Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions." At first I thought, "So what's the difference?" And then it hit me - an [i]extradimensional[/i] space is effectively a small pocket plane - it's not a container, it's a place accessed by a portal or doorway. By that logic, a portable hole is indeed an extradimensional space, because it's not a true container - it's a flat piece of cloth you lay out on a surface and reach into to grab whatever you want, as opposed to the bag of holding and handy haversack, which are actual, portable, containers that hold far more than they should. Now, rope trick says, "The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces ("planes")." I would take that to mean "a nondimensional space", which would also explain the warning at the end of the spell. But, by the above logic, this would be incorrect, since it's not a container. So effectively, spells create extradimensional spaces, items create nondimensional spaces, and nary the twain shall meet (IOW, it would be a bad idea to open one inside the other). [/QUOTE]

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