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Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 3025655" data-attributes="member: 35909">Oh, absolutely.  I'm in the camp of wanting to combine MS and Hide, but not Spot and Listen.  Not to help the PC rogue, but rather because as the rules stand now, it's extremely difficult to have an NPC sneak up on a party.  between 4-6 PC's, there's usually at least 2 very good at listen and 2 very good at spotting (possibly the same 2 PC's).Sure, you could use Invisibility and Silence, but such a combo wouldn't work too great for a pure caster.  Could be nice for a rogue w/ UMD, but then it's either one of two scenarios: a) PC's have absolutely no clues or knowledge beforehand of this possibility, and then it will come across as an unfair DM screw-over of the players, which I like to avoid, whether it's real or imagined.  b) Players have the opportunity to use Gather Info. or something to learn about what's waiting for them in X dungeon, or that there's a bounty on them, etc...  They then probably prepare counters to the aforementioned spells, negating their usefulness anyway.So, it all comes down to the skill checks.  I'd rather make MS and Hide the same skill and give the NPC a similar skill bonus to the best PC's, rather than, say, give the NPC a much higher bonus so as to make the PC's skill investments practically worthless.</blockquote>