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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 6581599" data-attributes="member: 6689464">Basic is Basic, Standard is Standard, and in Standard the sorcerer is not considered optional. And more so, the PotA spells will eventually phase out. I agree that it could be good to have a single generic spellcasting class, but the wizard isn't that class, it is an extremely specific version of what a spellcaster can be, and it is very limiting. But that is an exclusionary vision, and it won't always work. And this is a thread about the effects of just using all wizard spells for the sorcerer -ask the DM won't work if the DM is the one asking-. And how do you know how common or uncommon it is? And how the designers would know it? the sorcerer wasn't on the open playtest and except for the last survey they have asked exactly zero feedback on the sorcerer. But traps imply optimization, not everybody optimizes, it is possible to have fun with suboptimal things, and on top optimization can have different goals. What is a trap for a player, is fun for another one. And this "most sorcerers" cannot be proved (or disproved) Ok, show me how to make a 100% utility caster that is useful and not make your party regret they didn't bring a wizard, a charming high level illusionist, an effective gish, an eldritch artisan, a friend to all living things sorcerer, a sorcerous thief, a caster killer sorcerer and a hunter sorcerer. All effective at all levels. And that is without entering into longer term effects or reality shaping. Or you could relearn a lower level spell, having two good spells for the concept, but lacking the third only makes you inferior to the wizard who can casually dabble in your niche and outdo you. This is the thing, sorcerers are niche grabbing casters, but lacking access to niche-filling spells reduces the number of niches you can occupy effectively.   Or you can relearn a lower level spell and have two spells to chose in that slot, really, being able to relearn spells each level is a boon, at certain point lower level slots are more useful for metamagic than for spells, and if a low level spell is very good, you may want to cast it in a higher level slot anyway. And isn't mage armor one of these spells you only cast once a day?</blockquote>

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