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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6582396" data-attributes="member: 20323">[MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] Yes, you got what I was arguing! Your examples of innate detect magic, arcane siphon, and arcane overextension are spot on. The only things I would add are a nixing material components from the class altogether (and therefor arcane foci), and building in some kind of spell botching rules (maybe on a natural 1 to attack?) reflecting the uncontrolled nature of Sorcerer magic.There is the spell point variant in the DMG, and a powers system certainly would make sense for Sorcerers, but 5e seems to treat variant spellcasting systems as, well, variants rather than class defining features.Something akin to your second approach seems more appropriate to 5e. I'm actually working up my own hack of the Sorcerer, and I'm basically making it the &quot;assemble your spell list with mini-spell list modules&quot; caster. So there is no singular Sorcerer spell list. Unlike your example using the existing spell schools, which I deemed felt to wizardly, I opted to define my own &quot;spell themes&quot; (e.g. Artifice, Curse, Death, Earth, Flame, Frost, Light, Storm, Warding, Water, etc). And then a Sorcerer assembles their spell list by choosing, say, 4 themes at 1st level, another theme at 4th level, and another at 10th level (mirroring cantrip acquisition).Then I might give each &quot;spell theme&quot; a minor ability / restriction / appearance change, reflecting the sort of self-volition / creative urge of that particular brand of Sorcerer magic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 6582396, member: 20323"] [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] Yes, you got what I was arguing! Your examples of innate detect magic, arcane siphon, and arcane overextension are spot on. The only things I would add are a nixing material components from the class altogether (and therefor arcane foci), and building in some kind of spell botching rules (maybe on a natural 1 to attack?) reflecting the uncontrolled nature of Sorcerer magic. There is the spell point variant in the DMG, and a powers system certainly would make sense for Sorcerers, but 5e seems to treat variant spellcasting systems as, well, variants rather than class defining features. Something akin to your second approach seems more appropriate to 5e. I'm actually working up my own hack of the Sorcerer, and I'm basically making it the "assemble your spell list with mini-spell list modules" caster. So there is no singular Sorcerer spell list. Unlike your example using the existing spell schools, which I deemed felt to wizardly, I opted to define my own "spell themes" (e.g. Artifice, Curse, Death, Earth, Flame, Frost, Light, Storm, Warding, Water, etc). And then a Sorcerer assembles their spell list by choosing, say, 4 themes at 1st level, another theme at 4th level, and another at 10th level (mirroring cantrip acquisition). Then I might give each "spell theme" a minor ability / restriction / appearance change, reflecting the sort of self-volition / creative urge of that particular brand of Sorcerer magic. [/QUOTE]

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