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Message: <blockquote data-quote="n00bdragon" data-source="post: 5873169" data-attributes="member: 6689371">I don't see a need to combine the two. The problem most people have with Vancian casting isn't that you run out of stuff to do in a day (because let's face it, you never do after 3rd level or so and the party will stop and rest after you do so no matter what the level) it's that it makes for easy design space at the expense of characters who don't have it.It's easy to make yet another spell because spells are modular and follow a standard format. You can insert them and take them out of a game easily. Doing the same with class features and the like is much more difficult. That's why 4e offered very few class features and set the majority of special things characters could do in powers, which were easy to add and remove in a modular fashion like spells.But a certain subset of people cried loud enough and now we have Vancian casting again. Why bother trying to fight it? Letting the casters choose to be Vancian or AEDU won't change the fact that they are still the only classes that have that kind of design and as such not only will they start on top they will continue to get better because you can't have a proper splat book without cramming a few more pages of spells into it, even if the book isn't meant for casters.</blockquote>