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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7295690" data-attributes="member: 20564">So there's two different points to this - how much it helps the action economy, and how much doubling up on concentration is.&nbsp; Both should raise spell level.For example, let's look at just action economy.&nbsp; Metamagic Twin is SP equal to the level of the spell, which also the number fo SP regained if you burn a slot for SP.&nbsp; (Metamagic Quicken is not applicable - it's limited by the &quot;bonus action spell, can only cast cantrips for rest of round.)&nbsp; A double fireball spell does 16d8 fire damage in a 20' radius.&nbsp; That's a 11th (!) level slot when upcasting, but upcasting isn't particularly efficient.&nbsp; A better example is ... hmm, actually, finding a spell that average 56 damage in an area is pretty hard.&nbsp; Looking at some other spells, it looks roughly around twice the spell level to do twice the damage in a single casting.So let's put &quot;combine two spells&quot; at the total of their levels.&nbsp; Maybe -1 if they are close in level - higher level spells are a bit more efficient.Then we need to figure out the efficiency of two concentration slots.&nbsp; This is also something Metamagic Twin can do.&nbsp; Not a perfect fit - that two different targets for the same spells, vs two different spells for the same target.&nbsp; But those seem fairly balanced.&nbsp; But not the whole x2 cost again since we're already hadnling that.&nbsp; Maybe just a +1 or +2.So if spells are of roughly similar level, I'd say a combo spell would be sum of both spells +1, and if they are different (like Bless and Haste) I'd do the sum of both spells +2.&nbsp; (Well, making Bless single-target in this case might bring it down to +1 instead of +2, but that's individual spell balancing).Let's see if this passes the smell test.Would you cast using a ......5th level slot for a single target Bless + Haste?&nbsp; (Uber weapon-wielder buff)...3rd level slot for a Invisibility + Misty Step?&nbsp; (Bug out spell - Misty step doesn't need concentration, so using the lower cost)...7th level slot for a Fly + Greater Invisibility?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7295690, member: 20564"] So there's two different points to this - how much it helps the action economy, and how much doubling up on concentration is. Both should raise spell level. For example, let's look at just action economy. Metamagic Twin is SP equal to the level of the spell, which also the number fo SP regained if you burn a slot for SP. (Metamagic Quicken is not applicable - it's limited by the "bonus action spell, can only cast cantrips for rest of round.) A double fireball spell does 16d8 fire damage in a 20' radius. That's a 11th (!) level slot when upcasting, but upcasting isn't particularly efficient. A better example is ... hmm, actually, finding a spell that average 56 damage in an area is pretty hard. Looking at some other spells, it looks roughly around twice the spell level to do twice the damage in a single casting. So let's put "combine two spells" at the total of their levels. Maybe -1 if they are close in level - higher level spells are a bit more efficient. Then we need to figure out the efficiency of two concentration slots. This is also something Metamagic Twin can do. Not a perfect fit - that two different targets for the same spells, vs two different spells for the same target. But those seem fairly balanced. But not the whole x2 cost again since we're already hadnling that. Maybe just a +1 or +2. So if spells are of roughly similar level, I'd say a combo spell would be sum of both spells +1, and if they are different (like Bless and Haste) I'd do the sum of both spells +2. (Well, making Bless single-target in this case might bring it down to +1 instead of +2, but that's individual spell balancing). Let's see if this passes the smell test. Would you cast using a ... ...5th level slot for a single target Bless + Haste? (Uber weapon-wielder buff) ...3rd level slot for a Invisibility + Misty Step? (Bug out spell - Misty step doesn't need concentration, so using the lower cost) ...7th level slot for a Fly + Greater Invisibility? [/QUOTE]

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