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<blockquote data-quote="Gadget" data-source="post: 7295809" data-attributes="member: 23716">I have little sympathy for such people.&nbsp; I see a lot of: &quot;But in 3e, we could do...and sorcerer's could...&quot;.&nbsp; While drawing inspiration from older editions can be a good thing, at the end of the day: if you want to play 3e, play 3e.&nbsp; **Just a quick note, &quot;one round per level&quot; is a 3e duration effect; 5e usually just says: &quot;One minute, concentration.&quot;**Now this, on the other hand, speaks to another facet of 5e: high level spells tend to be kind of weak in many instances.&nbsp; Sure, there is the endless debates about Clone, Simulacrum, Forcecage, Wish, etc. being abusable, but a lot of spells at higher level don't really do much more than their lower level counterparts did, especially if those spells are upcast.&nbsp; For each one of those 'overpowered' spells, there seems to be at least a couple of Investiture of.., Mordenkainen’s Sword, Elemental Bane, Weird, etc.&nbsp; Look, I get and support that there was a desire to tone down the LFQW, but if you're going to keep the nine level spells system, you need to make sure that the spells are worth their level slot.&nbsp; One way to do this might be to combine some lower lower level effects into a higher level spell.&nbsp; I'd be hesitant to grant a invisibility/Fly spell, both because it is hard to see that as anything other than a meta-game end-around of the concentration rule, and I'm leery of that particular combination; but I could perhaps see something like: &quot;Greater Invisibility, when cast in a 9th/8th(?) level slot, does not require concentration&quot; or some such.&nbsp; There are already a couple of spells that can forgo concentration when cast at a high enough level.&nbsp; This would allow for the possibility of multiple concentration spells to be up at one time, but at a very high cost.&nbsp; Investiture of Flame already combines the benefits of Fire Shield(even more than what this spell gives you) with Aganazzar's Scorcher (more damage, less range), and many consider it barely worth consideration, so I guess it depends on how you combine the lower level spells into one.&nbsp; Props to Investiture of Flame for being thematic though.&nbsp;&nbsp; I guess the long and short of it is: I could see some spells combining lower level spell effects together, depending on how thematic and balanced it is; I could also see more effects or ameliorating concentration for casting in a much higher slot, if applied judiciously.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gadget, post: 7295809, member: 23716"] I have little sympathy for such people. I see a lot of: "But in 3e, we could do...and sorcerer's could...". While drawing inspiration from older editions can be a good thing, at the end of the day: if you want to play 3e, play 3e. **Just a quick note, "one round per level" is a 3e duration effect; 5e usually just says: "One minute, concentration."** Now this, on the other hand, speaks to another facet of 5e: high level spells tend to be kind of weak in many instances. Sure, there is the endless debates about [I]Clone, Simulacrum, Forcecage, Wish[/I], etc. being abusable, but a lot of spells at higher level don't really do much more than their lower level counterparts did, especially if those spells are upcast. For each one of those 'overpowered' spells, there seems to be at least a couple of [I]Investiture of.., Mordenkainen’s Sword, Elemental Bane, Weird[/I], etc. Look, I get and support that there was a desire to tone down the LFQW, but if you're going to keep the nine level spells system, you need to make sure that the spells are worth their level slot. One way to do this [I]might[/I] be to combine some lower lower level effects into a higher level spell. I'd be hesitant to grant a invisibility/Fly spell, both because it is hard to see that as anything other than a meta-game end-around of the concentration rule, and I'm leery of that particular combination; but I could perhaps see something like: "[I]Greater Invisibility[/I], when cast in a 9th/8th(?) level slot, does not require concentration" or some such. There are already a couple of spells that can forgo concentration when cast at a high enough level. This would allow for the possibility of multiple concentration spells to be up at one time, but at a very high cost. [I]Investiture of Flame[/I] already combines the benefits of [I]Fire Shield[/I](even more than what this spell gives you) with [I]Aganazzar's Scorcher[/I] (more damage, less range), and many consider it barely worth consideration, so I guess it depends on how you combine the lower level spells into one. Props to [I]Investiture of Flame[/I] for being thematic though. I guess the long and short of it is: I could see some spells combining lower level spell effects together, depending on how thematic and balanced it is; I could also see more effects or ameliorating concentration for casting in a much higher slot, if applied judiciously. [/QUOTE]

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