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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Danzauker" data-source="post: 4434787" data-attributes="member: 1929">Those kind of powers don't have a "charm" keyword because they are not compulsions. In facts they work equally well with oozes and constructs. Actually if they were charms I'd say meh at having them in the martial source.They are out-manouvers, at least as I see them. The DM places the enemies where they wanted to go. The player places them where they actually ended, due to his powers and actions.See it like this: - enemy wizard casts sleep. Rolls vs. PC defence. Ha-ha! He hits! Now you are asleep!- PC rolls saving throw. He makes. No way, dear DM, I'm just dizzyThat's the same thing. DM wanted to do something. He seemed to succeed. The player's action thwarted his plans.The big paradigm shift in 4e is that powers represent effects, and just that, while most of the causes are left to the imagination of players.Personally, I found that I prefer to descrive the actions of the whole round just after the monsters turn. Sort of a recap of what actually happened on the battlefield. Monsters have less "reality shifting" powers compared to PCs, so it's easy to consider all that happened in the round more or less simultaneous.</blockquote>