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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 227021" data-attributes="member: 2486">Bravo Humanophile.  Another interesting and intelligent response, but I would nevertheless take some issues with it. Granted- there is a point where facts and figures for which there is no game-mechanic becomes ridiculous.  Reminds me of Statbuilder, the spoof RPG, which has stats from Nose Picking Ability to SAT score.  Despite this objection, I feel that Comeliness is significant enough to require a value: it is important for describing the character, for when NPCs describe the character and for initial interaction with the character from good roleplayers (note that I do not apply a reaction modifier- we simply RP it as appropriate). Granted, but just because other Comeliness systems are poorly-constructed, there is no need to condemn every system imaginable.  I would agree that the old Unearthed Arcana system was farcical, whereby you can go around charming people willy-nilly.  However, if Comeliness is added to Charisma and defined for purposes of the initial reaction (as per Skills & Powers, or, for that matter, the CRPG Arcanum) it neither detracts from Charisma (as it is based on it) nor lead to double-jeopardy (if Comeliness is Cha + 3d6, then you could easily get a positive or negative modifier to Com relative to Cha). Again, this is fine as long as you roll appropriately.  A scholarly, slightly shy and sheltered wizard type is fine as long as you roll the appropriate stats.  Yet were you to roll (say) a straight set of 13s with one 14, it would be impossible to adapt them to the character envisaged.  You would either need to tweak the stats or ask the DM for a reroll.  Similarly, if Comeliness does not live up to the expectations of the character, you may ask your DM for a reroll, so long as your complaint is justified. As already asserted, Comeliness would be rolled independently of the main six to prevent 'dump-statting' (I personally find it abhorrent that Charisma is the 'dump stat' for every single iconic that doesn't receive a game mechanic advantage from it).  I do this by Charisma+3d6 as already mentioned, although if you wish you could simply roll 3d6 to make it independent of Charisma, although for reasons explained in my first post (a page back) this would be slightly awry.  As for invasiveness, again I don't think so.  3d6 allows a strong variation (15 points) and hence unless the character's charisma is really extreme then a broad general range is permissible.  Gandhi may have had 18 charisma, but with +3d6 he may only have had 21 appearance (average)- if you are desperate to play a not particularly attractive but still charismatic character, you could negotiate the stat; the converse is also true. If you really have a strong mental image, you could even break the mould, but the vast majority of cases would not. Just for the record, I favour the infamous Organic Method (4d6 in order, drop lowest, reroll one stat and swap any two).  I find that the 4d6 arrange to taste drop lowest creates the same characters over and over, and the point-buy will generate iconics.  Despite this, if you want to use pont-buy, so long as Comeliness is independent of the main six stats, the system does not break down. Absolutely correct.  I should retract that statement about my group immediately- anecdotal evidence for house rules should not be used in any case to true to prove a point. Again, a valid point.  Yet since we apply no real modifier to the Comeliness other than a general roleplaying one and descriptive one, we do not come across this problem.  In reality, any ability score is abstract (what does Wisdom 14 really mean?) to some degree- perhaps this is moreso.  Overall, Comeliness is not to be taken too seriously.  I find that Charisma + 3d6 with no effect other than RP works fine, although I'm willing to take a range of effects on initial reaction and the like.  It creates no real problems in the game mechanic or on character generation so long as you have a flexible DM, and it enhances the 'flavour' of the gameplay.</blockquote>

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