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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6135228" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Phwew! I'm glad you've cleared this up for us all! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Its perfectly reasonable for you to say you don't want to play except in games where the DM is the absolute arbiter. However, I will point out this a rather old-fashioned style of play at this point, and one has to wonder why WotC should create a game which can only support this type of play in the 21st Century. </p><p></p><p>Conjuring a really deep detailed environment is EXACTLY one of the primary problems for a DM. Every little thing can be resource for players, a clue about the environment, or potentially a hazard. There is no detail too small, as watching any of the myriad detective procedurals on TV nowadays will quickly tell you. The example I gave is a perfect one, the characters dodge into an ally, what resources and obstacles do they encounter there? If you expect the DM to provide every detail you're either going to have to have a VERY VERY good DM, Chris Perkins level good, or else you're better off with some plot coupons. I'm not sure what your last sentence about how the cart falls means. If you are objecting to a power with no check attached to it IMHO that's a minor detail. I think the point of it was to not NEED a check where a normal PC without the power would need to roll a check. You are of course free to object to the details of any given power, they can always be written in many different ways.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Meh, rules lawyers are obnoxious the world-wide. I don't think they're especially more of a problem in one edition than another. I had plenty of arguments with players back in the 1e days. In fact I've not had many such issues in 4e. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, honestly I have no idea where you're coming from on this. DM absolutism isn't the same thing as ToTM. It is just a limited way to imagine the world you play in. 4e is no more or less an RPG than any other. The rules are only there to help you imagine whatever you want to imagine is going on. That's how we play anyhow. All I can say is I got sick and tired of the arguments about where stuff was, etc. We never have those issues anymore with 4e, but if you are wanting to do something where the rules seem to be getting in the way then just make up something. No edition of the game can change your ability to do that, and it works fine even if the players are part of the making up of stuff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Meh, I only break out minis and grids when it is really needed. quite often we don't even really bother. Besides, we have some good minis and props and stuff, so its quite fun.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6135228, member: 82106"] Phwew! I'm glad you've cleared this up for us all! :devil: Its perfectly reasonable for you to say you don't want to play except in games where the DM is the absolute arbiter. However, I will point out this a rather old-fashioned style of play at this point, and one has to wonder why WotC should create a game which can only support this type of play in the 21st Century. Conjuring a really deep detailed environment is EXACTLY one of the primary problems for a DM. Every little thing can be resource for players, a clue about the environment, or potentially a hazard. There is no detail too small, as watching any of the myriad detective procedurals on TV nowadays will quickly tell you. The example I gave is a perfect one, the characters dodge into an ally, what resources and obstacles do they encounter there? If you expect the DM to provide every detail you're either going to have to have a VERY VERY good DM, Chris Perkins level good, or else you're better off with some plot coupons. I'm not sure what your last sentence about how the cart falls means. If you are objecting to a power with no check attached to it IMHO that's a minor detail. I think the point of it was to not NEED a check where a normal PC without the power would need to roll a check. You are of course free to object to the details of any given power, they can always be written in many different ways. Meh, rules lawyers are obnoxious the world-wide. I don't think they're especially more of a problem in one edition than another. I had plenty of arguments with players back in the 1e days. In fact I've not had many such issues in 4e. Well, honestly I have no idea where you're coming from on this. DM absolutism isn't the same thing as ToTM. It is just a limited way to imagine the world you play in. 4e is no more or less an RPG than any other. The rules are only there to help you imagine whatever you want to imagine is going on. That's how we play anyhow. All I can say is I got sick and tired of the arguments about where stuff was, etc. We never have those issues anymore with 4e, but if you are wanting to do something where the rules seem to be getting in the way then just make up something. No edition of the game can change your ability to do that, and it works fine even if the players are part of the making up of stuff. Meh, I only break out minis and grids when it is really needed. quite often we don't even really bother. Besides, we have some good minis and props and stuff, so its quite fun. [/QUOTE]
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