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Coming Around on the "Not D&D" D&D Next Train
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<blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6137228" data-attributes="member: 6674889"><p>From my very first post, I've always spoken my mind, and many others concur with me. The amount of +ve feedback I've had on my posts, relative to my post count, affirm this objectively undeniable fact.</p><p></p><p>I came here initially to ask a few questions about Pathfinder when I had quit 4e, then these, frankly edition-war-baiting threads pop up, and to defend the spirit of D&D in the way I see it, I voraciously state my opinion. I don't need to be inclusionary, in fact it would defeat the purpose of my posts. I feel 4e should be excluded out right as an anomaly in D&D's history. </p><p></p><p>I believe it to be an <strong><u><em>abomination</em></u></strong>.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><strong>Mod Note:</strong> We are talking about pretending to be elves, not moral atrocities. Hyperbole may express how you feel, but your communication must be tailored not just for you, but also for your audience and the venue. If you fail to keep a certain level of perspective, you'll not like the results.</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">Please, folks, don't respond to hyperbole with anger or further hyperbole. It won't change his mind, and will not aid the discussion.</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">~Umbran</span></p><p></p><p>I've played since 1e and no jump to a different edition, despite all the math inverting from 2e to 3e, and innumerable other differences over the years, has been as jarring as what we experienced in 2008. The vexatious relationship our parties have had with that ruleset made me hate this hobby for a while. I joined a PF group and the world was right again. PF is TEN TIMES the D&D that 4e is.</p><p></p><p>My attempt to reconcile the *<em>literary </em>game I grew up loving, that taught me, patience, imagination, creativity, and many other traits...have let me to feel that any ruleset, to be recognizable as D&D, need to have a combination of certain game mechanics to feel right, to play in such a way that allows your mind and imagination to run free. I tried my hardest to let 4e achieve that, to no avail, frankly it was more annoying than it was worth, as you all know my POV I won't belabor the point any further after this thread. </p><p></p><p>However, I will never, ever, apologize for stating my opinion on a message board. You're stating yours, mine is equally valid. Yours is that all rulesets are arbitrary and that so long as Hasbro slaps D&D on it, it's <em>D&D</em>, then you're welcome to it!!! But like the New Coke fiasco, the market retaliated, and my posts merely reflect that. My opinion isn't trying to be nice to spare you your feelings about koom bah yah, everything is equal. No, it isn't. 1e, 2e, 3e, and DDN all have certain characteristics that feel a lot closer to what I grew up with, than 4e. Why should I state anything otherwise? If I had the time and the know-how, I could try to break down the "essential characteristics" of what makes a game of D&D feel like playing D&D to you, but I don't feel the need to suffix every sentence with "to me". That is absurd. Obviously my opinions are mine. But they shall not be boxed in with your parameters of what's acceptable or not! I do not submit to your completely arbitrary judgement to defer to Hasbro's trademark as the final word as to what D&D is, and isn't. I know what feels right, and what feels wrong, to me...and 4e feels like some other, different game, with merely the name of D&D purloined and glued on top.</p><p></p><p>D&D Next is reclaiming the title, with a vengeance. I hope 4e rules die in a funeral pyre of epic proportions, with a stake driven through its heart, such that it shall perish forevermore. That's impolitic, and if it makes you angry or cry or whatever...ask yourself, why? Why does my opinion matter to you? It really shouldn't. Yours don't matter to me, although I've taken great pleasure from reading various posts here over the years, and have learned much in the meanwhile, I just won't submit to bullying. You're stating your opinion is more valid than mine is, since my opinion is that 4e is NOT D&D, that I'm drawing outside the boundaries of what's "acceptable" or not...I laugh at such meager pronouncements.</p><p></p><p>*literary != board game. You can run a combat in 5 minutes with four rounds, and no grid. That requires imagination, and paying attention. I.e. it's a literary game. 4e you can play just by looking at the board and ignoring pretty much most of what the DM says otherwise. That's an insult to the game, and I've seen it so many times at tables with various DMs to attribute the problem with the rules themselves, not with the DMs. The rules encourage -- nay, <strong>require </strong>: game-table focusing, instead of story.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gorgoroth, post: 6137228, member: 6674889"] From my very first post, I've always spoken my mind, and many others concur with me. The amount of +ve feedback I've had on my posts, relative to my post count, affirm this objectively undeniable fact. I came here initially to ask a few questions about Pathfinder when I had quit 4e, then these, frankly edition-war-baiting threads pop up, and to defend the spirit of D&D in the way I see it, I voraciously state my opinion. I don't need to be inclusionary, in fact it would defeat the purpose of my posts. I feel 4e should be excluded out right as an anomaly in D&D's history. I believe it to be an [B][U][I]abomination[/I][/U][/B]. [color=red][B]Mod Note:[/B] We are talking about pretending to be elves, not moral atrocities. Hyperbole may express how you feel, but your communication must be tailored not just for you, but also for your audience and the venue. If you fail to keep a certain level of perspective, you'll not like the results. Please, folks, don't respond to hyperbole with anger or further hyperbole. It won't change his mind, and will not aid the discussion. ~Umbran[/color] I've played since 1e and no jump to a different edition, despite all the math inverting from 2e to 3e, and innumerable other differences over the years, has been as jarring as what we experienced in 2008. The vexatious relationship our parties have had with that ruleset made me hate this hobby for a while. I joined a PF group and the world was right again. PF is TEN TIMES the D&D that 4e is. My attempt to reconcile the *[I]literary [/I]game I grew up loving, that taught me, patience, imagination, creativity, and many other traits...have let me to feel that any ruleset, to be recognizable as D&D, need to have a combination of certain game mechanics to feel right, to play in such a way that allows your mind and imagination to run free. I tried my hardest to let 4e achieve that, to no avail, frankly it was more annoying than it was worth, as you all know my POV I won't belabor the point any further after this thread. However, I will never, ever, apologize for stating my opinion on a message board. You're stating yours, mine is equally valid. Yours is that all rulesets are arbitrary and that so long as Hasbro slaps D&D on it, it's [I]D&D[/I], then you're welcome to it!!! But like the New Coke fiasco, the market retaliated, and my posts merely reflect that. My opinion isn't trying to be nice to spare you your feelings about koom bah yah, everything is equal. No, it isn't. 1e, 2e, 3e, and DDN all have certain characteristics that feel a lot closer to what I grew up with, than 4e. Why should I state anything otherwise? If I had the time and the know-how, I could try to break down the "essential characteristics" of what makes a game of D&D feel like playing D&D to you, but I don't feel the need to suffix every sentence with "to me". That is absurd. Obviously my opinions are mine. But they shall not be boxed in with your parameters of what's acceptable or not! I do not submit to your completely arbitrary judgement to defer to Hasbro's trademark as the final word as to what D&D is, and isn't. I know what feels right, and what feels wrong, to me...and 4e feels like some other, different game, with merely the name of D&D purloined and glued on top. D&D Next is reclaiming the title, with a vengeance. I hope 4e rules die in a funeral pyre of epic proportions, with a stake driven through its heart, such that it shall perish forevermore. That's impolitic, and if it makes you angry or cry or whatever...ask yourself, why? Why does my opinion matter to you? It really shouldn't. Yours don't matter to me, although I've taken great pleasure from reading various posts here over the years, and have learned much in the meanwhile, I just won't submit to bullying. You're stating your opinion is more valid than mine is, since my opinion is that 4e is NOT D&D, that I'm drawing outside the boundaries of what's "acceptable" or not...I laugh at such meager pronouncements. *literary != board game. You can run a combat in 5 minutes with four rounds, and no grid. That requires imagination, and paying attention. I.e. it's a literary game. 4e you can play just by looking at the board and ignoring pretty much most of what the DM says otherwise. That's an insult to the game, and I've seen it so many times at tables with various DMs to attribute the problem with the rules themselves, not with the DMs. The rules encourage -- nay, [B]require [/B]: game-table focusing, instead of story. [/QUOTE]
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