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(Coming from 3.5) Are casters still the most powerful in PF?
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<blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 6117086" data-attributes="member: 12460"><p>Only one reply so far, but I was thinking of a way to handle this which wouldn't require me to really tailor encounters so much.</p><p></p><p>According to a well-respected (to some anyway) <a href="http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf44e&topic=1002.0" target="_blank">tier system</a>, there are six tiers of classes. Bear in mind this was for 3.5 but I imagine much of it will be true for PF. As I see it, if you stick to the core rulebook alone, there are three tiers 1) 9th-level casters, 2) bards, 3) everyone else. Pathfinder benefits from having three different advancement columns. I was thinking of somehow taking the three advancement XP tables and integrating that as a form of balance. Tier 1 classes would use the slow advancement table. Tier 2 classes (which at the moment would consist of only bards) would use the medium advancement table. And Tier 3 classes would use the fast advancement table. This is kind of old-school in a way and I kind of like it.</p><p></p><p>How to handle multiclass characters? Determine a character's XP needed to level up depending on what tier his classes are in and cut it into fractions. A 5th-level wizard/1st-level fighter would need 16,333 XP to level up (5/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the slow column and 1/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the fast column). A 5th-level fighter/1st-level wizard would need 13,500 XP to level up (5/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the fast column and 1/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the slow column). Just ignore the row totals and focus on the difference required between levels. I usually track XP myself and tell the players when they can level up so this would all go on behind the screen. The players would be aware of the rule, but they wouldn't have to worry about the math of what they need to level up. Since I believe it is almost universally acknowledged that prestige classes are better than base classes, then prestige classes would all use the slow column. Really weird builds like bard2/fighter6/wizard3 might be a bit unwieldy but presumably the player is doing this because he perceives some benefit from it. And if it is just a roleplay thing, he probably doesn't care about some differences in XP.</p><p></p><p>Let's say we have a party consisting of a bard, a fighter, and a wizard (no multiclassing for the sake of example). By the time the characters earn 2.4 million XP, the fighter will be 20th, the bard will be 18th (just shy of 19th), and the wizard will be midway between 17th and 18th. That's not a huge discrepancy in levels, but it does slow down the progression of spell levels earned by spellcasters a bit which helps flatten out the balance curve. The fact that monsters don't give out varying XP depending on the level of the player in PF makes the math work.</p><p></p><p>I once used different XP tables in 3e for this (I gave them XP tables reminiscent of AD&D XP tables) and it met with mixed results from the players, but was accepted and well-received for the most part and acknowledged as an acceptable way to handle the power curve.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="airwalkrr, post: 6117086, member: 12460"] Only one reply so far, but I was thinking of a way to handle this which wouldn't require me to really tailor encounters so much. According to a well-respected (to some anyway) [URL="http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf44e&topic=1002.0"]tier system[/URL], there are six tiers of classes. Bear in mind this was for 3.5 but I imagine much of it will be true for PF. As I see it, if you stick to the core rulebook alone, there are three tiers 1) 9th-level casters, 2) bards, 3) everyone else. Pathfinder benefits from having three different advancement columns. I was thinking of somehow taking the three advancement XP tables and integrating that as a form of balance. Tier 1 classes would use the slow advancement table. Tier 2 classes (which at the moment would consist of only bards) would use the medium advancement table. And Tier 3 classes would use the fast advancement table. This is kind of old-school in a way and I kind of like it. How to handle multiclass characters? Determine a character's XP needed to level up depending on what tier his classes are in and cut it into fractions. A 5th-level wizard/1st-level fighter would need 16,333 XP to level up (5/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the slow column and 1/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the fast column). A 5th-level fighter/1st-level wizard would need 13,500 XP to level up (5/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the fast column and 1/6 the amount needed to level up to 7th from the slow column). Just ignore the row totals and focus on the difference required between levels. I usually track XP myself and tell the players when they can level up so this would all go on behind the screen. The players would be aware of the rule, but they wouldn't have to worry about the math of what they need to level up. Since I believe it is almost universally acknowledged that prestige classes are better than base classes, then prestige classes would all use the slow column. Really weird builds like bard2/fighter6/wizard3 might be a bit unwieldy but presumably the player is doing this because he perceives some benefit from it. And if it is just a roleplay thing, he probably doesn't care about some differences in XP. Let's say we have a party consisting of a bard, a fighter, and a wizard (no multiclassing for the sake of example). By the time the characters earn 2.4 million XP, the fighter will be 20th, the bard will be 18th (just shy of 19th), and the wizard will be midway between 17th and 18th. That's not a huge discrepancy in levels, but it does slow down the progression of spell levels earned by spellcasters a bit which helps flatten out the balance curve. The fact that monsters don't give out varying XP depending on the level of the player in PF makes the math work. I once used different XP tables in 3e for this (I gave them XP tables reminiscent of AD&D XP tables) and it met with mixed results from the players, but was accepted and well-received for the most part and acknowledged as an acceptable way to handle the power curve. [/QUOTE]
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