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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 9438082" data-attributes="member: 1210">Dude. Okay, lines and veils and session zero are part of the social contract at the table. They aren't rules in the same way that the text of a spell in the PH is. They're two entirely different things. No rule in the game prevents pcs from doing horrible things to each other. The social contract at the table (hopefully) does. If a player cries &quot;muh creativity!&quot; when called on breaking the social contract, the answer is, &quot;You broke the social contract&quot;. It doesn't have anything to do with the rules of the game.Literally no one has said that (unless I missed a post).What fallacy? I'm pointing something out by analogy: that the rules aren't the problem here. A person's behavior is. The solution to a person's bad behavior isn't to change the rules of the game, it's to address the problem player's behavior with that player, up to and including, if necessary, kicking them from the table. Put another way, I am pointing out that the negative effects of restricting command to a list of functions outweighs the gains, as it doesn't really stop bad players from being bad. In fact, I would say that the only thing that does is addressing their behavior with them and having them either knock it off or leave the table.I haven't played either, so I honestly am not sure what you're getting at.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 9438082, member: 1210"] Dude. Okay, lines and veils and session zero are part of the social contract at the table. They aren't rules in the same way that the text of a spell in the PH is. They're two entirely different things. No rule in the game prevents pcs from doing horrible things to each other. The social contract at the table (hopefully) does. If a player cries "muh creativity!" when called on breaking the social contract, the answer is, "You broke the social contract". It doesn't have anything to do with the rules of the game. Literally no one has said that (unless I missed a post). What fallacy? I'm pointing something out by analogy: that the rules aren't the problem here. A person's behavior is. The solution to a person's bad behavior isn't to change the rules of the game, it's to address the problem player's behavior with that player, up to and including, if necessary, kicking them from the table. Put another way, I am pointing out that the negative effects of restricting command to a list of functions outweighs the gains, as it doesn't really stop bad players from being bad. In fact, I would say that the only thing that does is addressing their behavior with them and having them either knock it off or leave the table. I haven't played either, so I honestly am not sure what you're getting at. [/QUOTE]

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