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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9440946" data-attributes="member: 22779">Yeah, sorry, answered before I realized how far back in the thread I was.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />&nbsp; My bad.&nbsp; But, the point is, you're not using the spell &quot;imaginatively&quot;.&nbsp; You are flat out cheating.&nbsp; The spell specifically states you have to use a verb.&nbsp; And that goes all the way back to the 1e version of the spell, so, that's pretty clearly the intent of the spell.&nbsp; Most of your examples weren't valid because they were flat out not allowed by the spell and not because the DM is being obstructive.But, isn't it funny how all these examples of &quot;creative&quot; uses of the spell are ones that are in clear violation of the intent of the spell?&nbsp; Gee, it's almost like DM's have had to deal with this sort of thing for decades - players clearly violating the RAI of the effect - and WotC decided to finally close the loophole that was never open in the first place. IOW, the spell was never as open ended as you wanted.&nbsp; You just chose to ignore the rules.The 1e version doesn't allow for a save.&nbsp; I believe the first time Sleep gets a save is in 3e.&nbsp; But I could be wrong.&nbsp; Does 2e Sleep allow for a save?But, specific spells aside, as [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] has said, this is something that D&amp;D has struggled with for years.&nbsp; These open ended spells that are easily abused - even to the point of the people abusing the spells not actually knowing what the spell actually does - have very, very slowly been getting fixed.&nbsp; And it's a long, laborious process since every single time they write better mechanics, and yes, mechanics that are less prone to abuse are better mechanics, the fandom goes up in arms like this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9440946, member: 22779"] Yeah, sorry, answered before I realized how far back in the thread I was. :p My bad. But, the point is, you're not using the spell "imaginatively". You are flat out cheating. The spell specifically states you have to use a verb. And that goes all the way back to the 1e version of the spell, so, that's pretty clearly the intent of the spell. Most of your examples weren't valid because they were flat out not allowed by the spell and not because the DM is being obstructive. But, isn't it funny how all these examples of "creative" uses of the spell are ones that are in clear violation of the intent of the spell? Gee, it's almost like DM's have had to deal with this sort of thing for decades - players clearly violating the RAI of the effect - and WotC decided to finally close the loophole that was never open in the first place. IOW, the spell was never as open ended as you wanted. You just chose to ignore the rules. The 1e version doesn't allow for a save. I believe the first time Sleep gets a save is in 3e. But I could be wrong. Does 2e Sleep allow for a save? But, specific spells aside, as [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] has said, this is something that D&D has struggled with for years. These open ended spells that are easily abused - even to the point of the people abusing the spells not actually knowing what the spell actually does - have very, very slowly been getting fixed. And it's a long, laborious process since every single time they write better mechanics, and yes, mechanics that are less prone to abuse are better mechanics, the fandom goes up in arms like this. [/QUOTE]

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