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<blockquote data-quote="Daztur" data-source="post: 9441855" data-attributes="member: 55680">But...but...but...why? I'm honestly am having trouble wrapping my head around your point of view. In both cases people are using tools at their disposal (Spells and honey) to do something that is not specifically covered by the rules and which requires a DM call. I just don't see how distracting an owlbear with honey is any different from the DM side of the screen than screwing with someone with Command. Now of course some people try stupid naughty word with spells (&quot;I'm going to cast heat metal on the iron in his blood, har har.&quot;) but I've seen people do stupid naughty word with mundane stuff as well (&quot;I'm going to throw the pot of honey into the dragon's mouth so it's stuck closed by the sticky honey so it can't breathe fire on us!&quot;). In both cases the DM has to roll their eyes and tell the players their stupid naughty word doesn't work. What's the line you're drawing here?For me an important line is between Associated and Dissociated mechanics: <a href="https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/tag/dissociated-mechanics" target="_blank">The Alexandrian&nbsp; » dissociated mechanics</a>Associated mechanics: the PC is making the exact same choices as the player. For example &quot;I'm going to hit that goblin.&quot;Dissociated mechanics: the player is making a decision that the character himself isn't making in the game. For example: &quot;I use my inspiration to get advantage before I hit hat goblin.&quot; The character himself doesn't know what &quot;inspiration&quot; is.For me if the player is using associated mechanics in a clever way that's always fine, even if it doesn't always work since the player is thinking the same thoughts that the character is thinking. For example even something as obviously abusive as &quot;I cast create water in their lungs!&quot; is not something I'd have a problem with players TRYING, since I could see some dumb newbie wizard trying that stunt IC, it's not going to WORK but the logic behind it is the same IC and OOC and gets the player thinking about what works and what doesn't in terms of the fiction of the world.If the player is trying to be a weasel about the wording of dissociated mechanics, then that's just being a bad player and I'll shut that down.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Daztur, post: 9441855, member: 55680"] But...but...but...why? I'm honestly am having trouble wrapping my head around your point of view. In both cases people are using tools at their disposal (Spells and honey) to do something that is not specifically covered by the rules and which requires a DM call. I just don't see how distracting an owlbear with honey is any different from the DM side of the screen than screwing with someone with Command. Now of course some people try stupid naughty word with spells ("I'm going to cast heat metal on the iron in his blood, har har.") but I've seen people do stupid naughty word with mundane stuff as well ("I'm going to throw the pot of honey into the dragon's mouth so it's stuck closed by the sticky honey so it can't breathe fire on us!"). In both cases the DM has to roll their eyes and tell the players their stupid naughty word doesn't work. What's the line you're drawing here? For me an important line is between Associated and Dissociated mechanics: [URL="https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/tag/dissociated-mechanics"]The Alexandrian » dissociated mechanics[/URL] Associated mechanics: the PC is making the exact same choices as the player. For example "I'm going to hit that goblin." Dissociated mechanics: the player is making a decision that the character himself isn't making in the game. For example: "I use my inspiration to get advantage before I hit hat goblin." The character himself doesn't know what "inspiration" is. For me if the player is using associated mechanics in a clever way that's always fine, even if it doesn't always work since the player is thinking the same thoughts that the character is thinking. For example even something as obviously abusive as "I cast create water in their lungs!" is not something I'd have a problem with players TRYING, since I could see some dumb newbie wizard trying that stunt IC, it's not going to WORK but the logic behind it is the same IC and OOC and gets the player thinking about what works and what doesn't in terms of the fiction of the world. If the player is trying to be a weasel about the wording of dissociated mechanics, then that's just being a bad player and I'll shut that down. [/QUOTE]

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