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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9442542" data-attributes="member: 22779">The &quot;Defenestrate&quot; example is actually really interesting.Originally, the intent was that the target of the spell would launch themself out the window, presumably dealing damage from a fall.&nbsp; Then when it was demonstrated that no version of Command actually allowed for that - since the spell will not force a character to deal damage to itself, nor can the spell force the character to take an actual action - the joke was made that the character would throw something (a few cp) out the window.&nbsp; This was then spun as DM's hating creativity and being bad DM's for pulling a &quot;gotcha&quot; on the players.&nbsp; Much in the same way that &quot;Salute&quot; has now been spun as a &quot;gotcha&quot;.&nbsp; The fact that the player is 100% wrong in trying to use the spell this way doesn't apparently enter into it.&nbsp; &quot;Salute&quot; is just &quot;grovel&quot; really.&nbsp; Or even &quot;Halt&quot;.&nbsp; Only, the original example of &quot;Salute&quot; wasn't actually saluting, it was, &quot;get them to salute, which could in turn be a gesture the begins some attempted betrayal, leaking the knowledge that this will be the signal, so that individual appears to be the instigator.&quot;&nbsp; Note that this form of salute doesn't actually exist in a D&amp;D world.&nbsp; I'm sorry, but, it doesn't.&nbsp; The idea of a military style salute is something from much later.But, again, apparently things like facts don't matter.&nbsp; Anyone who actually knows the history of words is apparently engaged in &quot;gotcha's&quot; for the players.&nbsp; So, it's apparently perfectly acceptable for players to misuse, misinterpret or force specific definitions onto the DM - This is obviously a verb! - and the DM is 100% beholden to accept the player's words or be accused of being a bad DM and engaging in &quot;gotcha's&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9442542, member: 22779"] The "Defenestrate" example is actually really interesting. Originally, the intent was that the target of the spell would launch themself out the window, presumably dealing damage from a fall. Then when it was demonstrated that no version of Command [I]actually [/I]allowed for that - since the spell will not force a character to deal damage to itself, nor can the spell force the character to take an actual action - the joke was made that the character would throw something (a few cp) out the window. This was then spun as DM's hating creativity and being bad DM's for pulling a "gotcha" on the players. Much in the same way that "Salute" has now been spun as a "gotcha". The fact that the player is 100% wrong in trying to use the spell this way doesn't apparently enter into it. "Salute" is just "grovel" really. Or even "Halt". Only, the original example of "Salute" wasn't actually saluting, it was, "get them to salute, which could in turn be a gesture the begins some attempted betrayal, leaking the knowledge that this will be the signal, so that individual appears to be the instigator." Note that this form of salute doesn't actually exist in a D&D world. I'm sorry, but, it doesn't. The idea of a military style salute is something from much later. But, again, apparently things like facts don't matter. Anyone who actually knows the history of words is apparently engaged in "gotcha's" for the players. So, it's apparently perfectly acceptable for players to misuse, misinterpret or force specific definitions onto the DM - This is obviously a verb! - and the DM is 100% beholden to accept the player's words or be accused of being a bad DM and engaging in "gotcha's". [/QUOTE]

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