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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 5931424" data-attributes="member: 63508">In the past, an attack on the mind was a...1) generic Spell save2) A will saving throw based on your Wisdom3) a psionic defense4) A will defense based on the higher of your Wisdom or Charismabut now... now we have 3... count 'em 4 no.. 3! 3 mental saving throws. Unpresidented! What is an Charisma save? What kind of sudden assualts against your intellect to force a Int save? And how well would they be distributed to make one of them not the "sonic resistance" of saving throws. Charms: Wisdom. The "Hot to Play" document says that Wisdom deals with charms. Charms change the way the subject is viewed or perceived. That would involve the perception aspect of Wisdom.Compulsions: Charisma. The document also states that Charisma would  deal with many compulsions. Makes sense as a most compulsions place a more obedient personality in the target's mind. So the old and new personality would be fighting for control of the target. Therefore Command and Hold Person really should be a Charisma save.Illusions: This is a tough one but it seems like there are 3 kinds of illusions.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">External Illusions: Wisdom.  These would be illusions that those that encounter it would have to passively perceive the falseness of the</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Phantasms. Intelligence. Unlike External illusions, illusions placed within the mind like phantasmal killer cannot be ignored. So disbelief would be Intelligence based as it would active.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shadow spells: Wisdom. This one is a tough one but I believe their saving would be passive much like an external illusion.</li> </ul>Fear: Fear is tough, it is Wisdom to use willpower to overcome the fear or Charisma to use you personality to take control of yourself.Spiritual/Soul attack: Wisdom. Attacks on the spirit or soul would be Wisdom based as the divine is wisdom based.Maze: Intelligence The maze spell is transportation into a puzzle plane.Psionic Attacks: Each type of psionic attack(Ego Whip, Id Insinuation, Mind Thrust, Mind Blast, Psychic Crush) would nvoke would have a different save... maybe. Mostly Intelligence and Charisma as they are attacks on your logic or personality. Probably Intelligence as psions are now Intelligence based. So psionic attack could be Intelligence based except Telepathic attack which are Charisma based.Madness/Insanity/Confusion: Charisma. D&D's insanity is more or less a compulsion. The original personality has be replaced by another less stable one.Thoughts? Am I missing something?</blockquote>

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