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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Comment about 4E designers loving D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Glyfair" data-source="post: 3768581" data-attributes="member: 53"><p>But if the math is screwy then the plot gets lost in player frustration. </p><p></p><p>For example, one complaint I've heard about 3E is that at high levels AC is meaningless for PCs. Attack bonuses grow so much faster than AC does that it makes little difference whether you go into combat with no armor, or the "level normal" level of defensive bonuses. Let's <strong>completely ignore</strong> whether this is accurate or not, it's just an example.</p><p></p><p>So, if we have this situation than your paladin PC who considers himself Mr. Defense, and wants to bravely enter the fray dishing out some average damage, but rarely getting hurt because that's where he focuses the character. This works at low levels and he gets to play up this part of his character. At high levels it breaks down until the paladin is hit almost as often as the wizard. Sure, he can change his focus because of this rules problem, but that goes against one of his key elements of his character concept. </p><p></p><p>It's much better if the designers sit down and work out all the math and make sure it works "right" before you come to the table. You don't have to worry about a character finding out that his character concept breaks down at some point in the game because of a mathematical flaw in the game. You, as a group, don't have to decide whether the character needs to change, or whether you can "patch" the game with a house rule to fix it (which will probably require you to go in and mess with the mathematical bits you dislike so much).</p><p></p><p>So if the game is about revised maths ... I am not interested, and I absolutely guarantee that the only player in my group will be the one math teacher. Incidentally, he happens to be our resident munchkin / rules lawyer.</p></blockquote><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Glyfair, post: 3768581, member: 53"] But if the math is screwy then the plot gets lost in player frustration. For example, one complaint I've heard about 3E is that at high levels AC is meaningless for PCs. Attack bonuses grow so much faster than AC does that it makes little difference whether you go into combat with no armor, or the "level normal" level of defensive bonuses. Let's [B]completely ignore[/B] whether this is accurate or not, it's just an example. So, if we have this situation than your paladin PC who considers himself Mr. Defense, and wants to bravely enter the fray dishing out some average damage, but rarely getting hurt because that's where he focuses the character. This works at low levels and he gets to play up this part of his character. At high levels it breaks down until the paladin is hit almost as often as the wizard. Sure, he can change his focus because of this rules problem, but that goes against one of his key elements of his character concept. It's much better if the designers sit down and work out all the math and make sure it works "right" before you come to the table. You don't have to worry about a character finding out that his character concept breaks down at some point in the game because of a mathematical flaw in the game. You, as a group, don't have to decide whether the character needs to change, or whether you can "patch" the game with a house rule to fix it (which will probably require you to go in and mess with the mathematical bits you dislike so much). So if the game is about revised maths ... I am not interested, and I absolutely guarantee that the only player in my group will be the one math teacher. Incidentally, he happens to be our resident munchkin / rules lawyer.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
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