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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4736681" data-attributes="member: 2020">I do not have time at the moment to make a full reply to your post.  My regrets.  I'll get to it later.  Allow me to say this:  The Human Equation, is an extremely complex affair.  It is too complicated for me to attempt to solve.  It has been so complicated, it has baffled game designers since roleplaying was invented.    This isn't to say we can't have fun.  We can.  But we do have to deal with the Human Equation, and ... sometimes ... it's a problem.  When people min/max with glee, exploiting the rules for the purpose of mechanical gain only, without consideration for roleplaying purposes, this is a Human Equation problem.  And if this overwhelms the DM, and he can no longer provide meaningful challenges, and the game collapses and nobody has fun anymore, and the campaign falls apart, this is a Human Equation affair.  It isn't a very pleasant Human Equation affair (obviously) but it is a direct product of the behavior of those at the table, no?  *** I am not trying to directly address the Human Equation in this thread.  It is quite beyond my ability to do so. ***  If you grant the players more of anything - much less the number of skill points and feats I have discussed - then yes, the Human Equation can come into the picture, they can abuse the privilege of choice, and they can totally wreck the game.  Real quickly.  (we don't have Knights of the Dinner Table for nothing!  :  )  )  My philosophical approach, my approach to Pathfinder that I would take, indeed everything I've said so far, assumes that the players will *not* do this.    My approach assumes the players will take the privilege of choice and run with it, but to make for more interesting characters and more neat and creative ideas to be expressed.    A little or moderately more character power?  Yes.  A group of munchkinized characters, min/maxed to the hilt, becoming super one-trick ponies?  I would hope not.  So if you are going to point out that the privilege of choice *could* be abused to produce munchkinized characters, I understand.  Obviously, it could.  The more choice, the more capacity for abuse.  That's a given.  Point conceded!    I am merely saying that there is nothing I can do about it, that the potential behavior of others is beyond my ability to address, the fact they *might* abuse the privilege of choice  ... there is nothing I can do about that.  I am, instead, trying to approach this from a Game Mechanics point of view.  Game Mechanics, by themselves, are neutral.  Unless they are used in some capacity (whether rightly or wrongly) they are merely theoretical.  Until they are put into practice, they are merely the subject of discussion, for themselves.  I have gone into the Human Equation in that I have stated that I thought my approach had the potential to stimulate creativity, that it would produce more fun.  Now, I cannot prove that.  I don't know that.  I merely think that is how it might be.  The Human Equation surpasses me.  I cannot say with certainty how people are going to react to what lies before them.  I cannot, can never, ever, dispute your point that greater numbers of skill points and feats lead to the potential for greater abuse.    All I can do is say that I believe, that it is my opinion, that my approach of more feats and skill points could stimulate creativity and increase the fun.  And it is from this perspective, that I am attempting to discuss my point.  Your point, is fully conceded by Yours Truly!  Yours Sincerely  Edena_of_Neith</blockquote>

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